Do "rights" really exist or are they imaginary?

There is zero evidence that rights exist, yet I strongly believe they do exist as a blind faith issue. I believe good and evil exist, and again as a fundamental blind faith. I believe that rights are simply a consequence of the existence of good & evil as fundamental forces of the universe. However, I certainly don't know of any evidence of that. It is simply a faith.

The only thing I have not decided for sure is whether I believe in rights because I want to believe them, or I believe in rights because my gut is telling me about subtle environmental cues that have not yet been codified into science yet, in the same way a scientist formulates a hypothesis based on casual observations but does not yet have any evidence to back up his theory.
 
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I do believe rights are real, as a subset of morality which is real. We certainly can have differing views on morality, but I think it is like a number of pupils getting different answers on their math homework, rather than a number of pupils disagreeing on their favorite flavor of ice cream. There is a right answer -- it is not all a matter of taste.
 
tremendoustie said:
I do believe rights are real, as a subset of morality which is real. We certainly can have differing views on morality, but I think it is like a number of pupils getting different answers on their math homework, rather than a number of pupils disagreeing on their favorite flavor of ice cream. There is a right answer -- it is not all a matter of taste.
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Can you provide evidence without using faith or god?
 
Rights absolutely do exist and believing in them is not a matter of faith.

Before you can approach the issue of why that statement is true, you have to start out by asking the more fundamental question, "What is the purpose of morality?" Rights are the mechanism by which morality functions. You must understand the purpose of morality before you can understand the mechanism by which it works.

Think about what the world would be like if there was no morality.
 
They do not exist on their own like the laws of physics. If you drop a bowling ball from the empire state building it will fall, accelerating to terminal velocity and there's nothing you can do about it. Gravity is a pre-existing law.

We say our rights are pre-existing and derive from our nature as humans because it makes us feel better and makes for a more orderly, pleasant existence.

But if I kill you, absent our social constructs and other people who actually give a shit, that's it you're dead and I walk away free. Nature or God or your "rights" didn't protect you or punish me.

Rights are only what we agree upon and enforce.
 
We hold these truths to be self-evident
Yes these rights exist.
You either see it or you don't.

If you don't find it to be self-evident you may want to examine yourself, and find out what your problem is.
 
Just because rights can be and are violated, does not establish nor does it prove their non-existence.
 
rational thinker said:
Can you provide evidence without using faith or god?
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Sure, try to infringe upon those rights and see what this glock does to you.
If you walk into a wall and you hit it... you know it is there.
When you try to walk on my rights, and I hit you... you know where that line is...
Thus, my willingness to define and defend my soveriengty, creates it.
 
I own me, I should have the right to do what I please as long as I do no harm to others or their property. I love this by Robert Taft on Liberty...

"When I say liberty I do not simply mean what is referred to as “free enterprise.” I mean liberty of the individual to think his own thoughts and live his own life as he desires to think and to live; the liberty of the family to decide how they wish to live, what they want to eat for breakfast and for dinner, and how they wish to spend their time; liberty of a man to develop his ideas and get other people to teach those ideas, if he can convince them that they have some value to the world; liberty of every local community to decide how its children shall be educated, how its local services shall be run, and who its local leaders shall be; liberty of a man to choose his own occupation; and liberty of a man to run his own business as he thinks it ought to be run, as long as he does not interfere with the right of other people to do the same thing."
 
1000-points-of-fright said:
They do not exist on their own like the laws of physics. If you drop a bowling ball from the empire state building it will fall, accelerating to terminal velocity and there's nothing you can do about it. Gravity is a pre-existing law.

We say our rights are pre-existing and derive from our nature as humans because it makes us feel better and makes for a more orderly, pleasant existence.

But if I kill you, absent our social constructs and other people who actually give a shit, that's it you're dead and I walk away free. Nature or God or your "rights" didn't protect you or punish me.

Rights are only what we agree upon and enforce.
Click to expand...

Rights do exist.

If you and I were living on an island, and you kill me, you've missed out on the opportunity to cooperate and trade with me. Consequently, your lifestyle will be worse than it would be had you not killed me.

On the other hand, if we were living on an island, and I was stealing from you, and you killed me, your lifestyle would be better than it would have been had you not killed me.

In both cases, you would face the natural consequences of your actions. These two hypothetical scenarios give us a wealth of insight into the true nature of morality.
 
1000-points-of-fright said:
They do not exist on their own like the laws of physics. If you drop a bowling ball from the empire state building it will fall, accelerating to terminal velocity and there's nothing you can do about it. Gravity is a pre-existing law.

We say our rights are pre-existing and derive from our nature as humans because it makes us feel better and makes for a more orderly, pleasant existence.

But if I kill you, absent our social constructs and other people who actually give a shit, that's it you're dead and I walk away free. Nature or God or your "rights" didn't protect you or punish me.

Rights are only what we agree upon and enforce.
Click to expand...

Not true about the bowling ball. I can erect a platform just under the drop point and keep the ball from falling, just as you could pull a trigger to remove my right to exist. Each action is merely interference with a law or a right.
 
If rights are imaginary then what becomes of the "legitimate" ( so called ) PURPOSE for government?

POOF!
 
I think you are asking the wrong question. If rights are self-evident and exist, then why do some countries have more rights then others, freer then others. If rights do exist then wouldn't it be impossible to break them. If rights exist shouldn't everyone know there rights? I would have to agree with Carlin, rights are imaginary. Also, if you do not fight for your rights you wont have any, if you do then you will. These days rights are slowly becoming extinct.
 
Can you provide evidence without using faith or god?
Click to expand...

You know we can't, yet us people of faith continue to believe and the atheists will never understand something that can only be understood spiritually. We believers understand that there are rights and a God because we don't silence or destroy our spiritual natures. I think an atheist/agnostic has a chance to discover these things if they soften their hard hearts. There is an understanding greater than intellect.
 
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strapko said:
I think you are asking the wrong question. If rights are self-evident and exist, then why do some countries have more rights then others, freer then others. If rights do exist then wouldn't it be impossible to break them. If rights exist shouldn't everyone know there rights? I would have to agree with Carlin, rights are imaginary. Also, if you do not fight for your rights you wont have any, if you do then you will. These days rights are slowly becoming extinct.
Click to expand...

More rights than other... when all rights are the same... if there is a disparity, then someone's government has infringed on their rights.
So- you are talking about governments, and how much they try and tell people what their rights are...
If our rights came from government... then they are the master, and we are the slave.
 
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