Critical Thoughts About This Border Wall "Crisis"

[Anti Federalist]

I vividly remember during the RP campaign some of the liberty meetups I attended throughout several states were being co-opted. I and quite a few others earned the respect and trust toward each other and still maintain friendships as well as a couple of weekly meetings we still hold. One of things that I am known for is vetting out politicians, and attendees attempting to sway new members to a more, shall I say, “statist” view. Well, it was just a matter of time before it happened here.

“You bore me”, “banter” “LOL”, “stoned college kids”. None of that bothers this ripe young man. But it does display the same lack of tolerance and respect that we encountered among the romney folks.

RPF, RIP.

I disagree.

I was very much in the same school of thought that you were in.

What changed my mind on this was the unhinged, "masks off" response of the Bolshevik left in the United States after the 2016 election cycle.

I was not a Trump fan, I wrote many heated posts in opposition to him, I did not vote for him, and my jury is still out.

Outside of faint praise on some of the actions he has taken, that is about the only way I could be called a "Trump Humper" or shill and my change in view does not come from a purely partisan point of view.

Mock and scoff if you like, but I'll be brutally honest, yes, the reactions from the Bolshevik left and the Snowflakes at political trends over the last couple of years, all of whom are happy to embrace tyranny, scared the crap out of me.

In my mind, it is not hyperbole to say they are but one charismatic leader away from becoming Jacobin-esque killers.

And they have made it very clear that the target is squarely placed on me and my family.

We all thought it would be government tanks and troops in the street to oppress us, in the final end.

It will not be.

It will be your neighbor burning down your house in the middle of the night for holding "improper views".

It will be your boss bankrupting you by blackballing you for employment and banking and trade for saying "improper things".

It will be the random leftist thug shooting you in the face for doing "improper things".

 

[RJB]

I vividly remember during the RP campaign some of the liberty meetups I attended throughout several states were being co-opted. I and quite a few others earned the respect and trust toward each other and still maintain friendships as well as a couple of weekly meetings we still hold. One of things that I am known for is vetting out politicians, and attendees attempting to sway new members to a more, shall I say, “statist” view. Well, it was just a matter of time before it happened here.

“You bore me”, “banter” “LOL”, “stoned college kids”. None of that bothers this ripe young man. But it does display the same lack of tolerance and respect that we encountered among the romney folks.

RPF, RIP.

Stoned college kids was a remark based on my own experience, conversations, and thoughts. I once believed as you do. Like AF, I have come to realize a lot of people hate us.

I also came to the understanding that a good portion of Americans want a police, warfare, and welfare state in a limited scope. I would prefer not to have that, but I realize, that will never change. What will change is importing a population who wants a larger welfare state and a criminal class who scares people into wanting more police.

One of the things governments came about for is defense of like minded people. I see nothing wrong with bringing our troops home and defending the borders. They should let other nations exist as they wish to exist and defend our nation from those who wish us harm.

If someone wants to come into this country, they can enter the respectable way, as long as they do not try to change it into a Venezuela.

 

[Swordsmyth]

I disagree.

I was very much in the same school of thought that you were in.

What changed my mind on this was the unhinged, "masks off" response of the Bolshevik left in the United States after the 2016 election cycle.

I was not a Trump fan, I wrote many heated posts in opposition to him, I did not vote for him, and my jury is still out.

Outside of faint praise on some of the actions he has taken, that is about the only way I could be called a "Trump Humper" or shill and my change in view does not come from a purely partisan point of view.

Mock and scoff if you like, but I'll be brutally honest, yes, the reactions from the Bolshevik left and the Snowflakes at political trends over the last couple of years, all of whom are happy to embrace tyranny, scared the crap out of me.

In my mind, it is not hyperbole to say they are but one charismatic leader away from becoming Jacobin-esque killers.

And they have made it very clear that the target is squarely placed on me and my family.

We all thought it would be government tanks and troops in the street to oppress us, in the final end.

It will not be.

It will be your neighbor burning down your house in the middle of the night for holding "improper views".

It will be your boss bankrupting you by blackballing you for employment and banking and trade for saying "improper things".

It will be the random leftist thug shooting you in the face for doing "improper things".

It will be racial gangs murdering whites to "bring down white privilege".

 

[Swordsmyth]

Stoned college kids was a remark based on my own experience, conversations, and thoughts. I once believed as you do. Like AF, I have come to realize a lot of people hate us.

I also came to the understanding that a good portion of Americans want a police, warfare, and welfare state in a limited scope. I would prefer not to have that, but I realize, that will never change. What will change is importing a population who wants a larger welfare state and a criminal class who scares people into wanting more police.

One of the things governments came about for is defense of like minded people. I see nothing wrong with bringing our troops home and defending the borders. They should let other nations exist as they wish to exist and defend our nation from those who wish us harm.

If someone wants to come into this country, they can enter the respectable way, as long as they do not try to change it into a Venezuela.

And if we were to ever convince the masses to embrace libertarianism/anarchy it will be because we educate them faster than they multiply, bringing in millions of people who are even farther away from our position every year will make that impossible.

If we ever achieve a libertarian/anarchic paradise then we can allow a slightly larger number to come here.

 

[Anti Federalist]

It will be racial gangs murdering whites to "bring down white privilege".

Maybe...but honestly, almost every time I see some professor or pundit or leftist ranting about killing or utterly dispossessing me and my family in order to "bash fash" or "destroy the cis gender oppressors" or "bring down the patriarchy" it's a bunch of electric purple haired, tattooed, weirdosexual white women or a mob of white male, self loathing, slack jawed fagggots, of some sort or another.

Most of the middle and working class black folks I know, find this shit just as repugnant as we do.

The upper class blacks, not all, since their kids all attend the university system, where they all, of any ethnicity, get infected with the Cultural Marxism flu.

We, meaning whites, have a fuck ton housekeeping to do ourselves to get our house in order.

Which can't done while being flooded with third world migrants.

 

[angelatc]

I vividly remember during the RP campaign some of the liberty meetups I attended throughout several states were being co-opted. ..... But it does display the same lack of tolerance and respect that we encountered among the romney folks.

RPF, RIP.

Son, we were bored by people using your talking points by 2008.

 

[angelatc]

I disagree.

I was very much in the same school of thought that you were in.

.

We all were on that page once.

 

[euphemia]

Pretty much my POV- including the fact that the wall will be used more to keep us in than to keep them out.

Only if one plans to walk across the border in a place other than a designated port of call. You can fly anywhere you want with documentation. Or drive through a designated port of call. Or take a bus or train.

If you want to come into my house, you will use the door, if I let you in. Try to come in through a window or force your way in, and you might not like what happens.

I would not dream of pushing my way into your house, making a mess, changing the channels, or leaving the lights on all night.

 

[Ender]

Only if one plans to walk across the border in a place other than a designated port of call. You can fly anywhere you want with documentation. Or drive through a designated port of call. Or take a bus or train.

If you want to come into my house, you will use the door, if I let you in. Try to come in through a window or force your way in, and you might not like what happens.

I would not dream of pushing my way into your house, making a mess, changing the channels, or leaving the lights on all night.

Your private property is yours- we agree. But I have the lawful right to travel on open land that is not owned by an individual. The gov has no lawful right to any land.

 

[PAF]

So far with the exception of Ender and myself, I am seeing blanket sentencing without due process, eminent domain, restriction on freedom of travel, papers please, blowing off BoR... all being promoted. All of you are doing a helluva fine job assisting those who you say are wrecking this country.

Hell I feel freer and safer among the immigrants. Perhaps it would be prudent to take a good look at yourselves. Talk about flakes, you guys take the cake.

 

[PAF]

03:40

 

[Swordsmyth]

So far with the exception of Ender and myself, I am seeing blanket sentencing without due process,

That is pure nonsense, nobody is being sentenced to anything, they are being denied PERMISSION for something they DON'T have a right to.

eminent domain,

One of the reasons I don't support the wall but it is more justifiable on the border for national defense than anywhere else.

restriction on freedom of travel,

There is no such thing on an international basis, we have a right to keep out people who would violate our rights.

papers please,

Securing the border will reduce the justification for that inside the country and as I said above the foreigners don't have a right to come here without following the rules we need in order to protect our rights.

blowing off BoR... all being promoted.

The BoR is not relevant, it does NOT contain a right for foreigners to enter our country without following our rules.

All of you are doing a helluva fine job assisting those who you say are wrecking this country.

You are doing a bang up job of helping them with their #1 goal right now.

Hell I feel freer and safer among the immigrants.

Then move to California and enjoy the "freedom" and "safety" they have brought to that state.

Perhaps it would be prudent to take a good look at yourselves. Talk about flakes, you guys take the cake.

Physician heal thyself.


I have yet to hear you explain how we are going to educate millions of immigrants whose culture doesn't even give lip service to individual unalienable rights fast enough to ensure that things get better in this country instead of worse, we can't even educate enough Americans to make much progress.

Stop telling us what not to do for just a moment and tell us what to do and explain how it will succeed.

 

[Swordsmyth]

03:40

It's NOT about workers and jobs, it's about political control of the country and the fight for our rights, Ron's suggestions are good but with or without them people will still come her by the millions as long as we are wealthier than the other countries, if we don't increase border security with or without a wall then we will lose the war for our rights and become a communist country.

Also please notice that Ron wants services denied to non-citizens, that means citizens will need to prove their citizenship, that's the dreaded "papers please" according to your simplistic anarchist way of thinking.

 

[PAF]

The Wall is a brand of Utopia. We all know that Utopia does not exist. One would be better served to lock themselves into their homes or in a box, exchanging liberty for mythical total security.

Golf courses, farms, communities, parks, businesses... the wall would not be just an inconvenience, but would lead to bankruptcies, devestated communities and the potential to add even more people to the welfare system.

There is no question that Welfare needs to End. But imposing costly solutions, growth of government and eminent domain that reject liberty always, always leads to tyranny.

 

[Swordsmyth]

The Wall is a brand of Utopia. We all know that Utopia does not exist. One would be better served to lock themselves into their homes or in a box, exchanging liberty for mythical total security.

That is just plain hilarious coming from an anarchist that is selling open borders utopia.
The wall or other means of border enforcement isn't a utopia, it is a pragmatic method of mitigating a real world problem, it will not perfectly solve that problem but it will reduce it.

Golf courses, farms, communities, parks, businesses... the wall would not be just an inconvenience, but would lead to bankruptcies, devestated communities and the potential to add even more people to the welfare system.

There is no question that Welfare needs to End. But imposing costly solutions, growth of government and eminent domain that reject liberty always, always leads to tyranny.

I don't support the wall.

Now tell us what we should do to actively secure the border, ending welfare is insufficient because they will still come in excessive numbers as long as we are more wealthy than other countries and ending welfare would make us more wealthy.

 

[PAF]

That is just plain hilarious coming from an anarchist that is selling open borders utopia.
The wall or other means of border enforcement isn't a utopia, it is a pragmatic method of mitigating a real world problem, it will not perfectly solve that problem but it will reduce it.





I don't support the wall.

Now tell us what we should do to actively secure the border, ending welfare is insufficient because they will still come in excessive numbers as long as we are more wealthy than other countries and ending welfare would make us more wealthy.

I am not selling anything. But I am also not buying into anything that would infringe the rights of others. They clearly do not want that wall. It has already caused some businesses to fold, which put workers out of work, and one town in the above video to belly up.

I do not know why you keep asking me what the solution is. If I had a clear cut immediate solution it would already be in progress. That would be like me asking you what the immediate solution is to end the NSA, and while waiting for your answer, I would demand internet companies to give their businesses up to the Fed, by force if necessary, until NSA is abolished.

It is quite the conundrum, what this government does to appease the deep state. But I will not be responsible for supporting a wall and then live with the consequences of driving rightful property and business owners who employ workers out to dry.

I ABHOR Welfare. That is among the very first topics that I discuss at every event that I attend. But I try to keep a level head, so that I do not inadvertently suggest solutions that would infringe other Rights. Welfare has been around for a very long time, even republicans are numb to it. The good thing is, the more I talk about it, the more upset the attendees become. Now I am hoping that Welfare will be on the front burner around this country sooner rather than later.

 

[Swordsmyth]

I am not selling anything. But I am also not buying into anything that would infringe the rights of others. They clearly do not want that wall. It has already caused some businesses to fold, which put workers out of work, and one town in the above video to belly up.

I do not know why you keep asking me what the solution is. If I had a clear cut immediate solution it would already be in progress. That would be like me asking you what the immediate solution is to end the NSA, and while waiting for your answer, I would demand internet companies to give their businesses up to the Fed, by force if necessary, until NSA is abolished.

It is quite the conundrum, what this government does to appease the deep state. But I will not be responsible for supporting a wall and then live with the consequences of driving rightful property and business owners who employ workers out to dry.

I ABHOR Welfare. That is among the very first topics that I discuss at every event that I attend. But I try to keep a level head, so that I do not inadvertently suggest solutions that would infringe other Rights. Welfare has been around for a very long time, even republicans are numb to it. The good thing is, the more I talk about it, the more upset the attendees become. Now I am hoping that Welfare will be on the front burner around this country sooner rather than later.

In other words you don't believe that there is anything we should do to actively secure the border.

I can tell you what to do about the NSA, you can campaign against it with your elected officials, you can sue and try to take the case to SCOTUS or you can launch a revolution.
I can't guarantee that any of those will succeed but those are the things you can do about it.

Am I wrong in the first line of this post? Is there ANYTHING you believe we can do to improve active border security?

Do you have any idea how a libertarian country with no border or immigration controls is supposed to avoid losing its liberty to the millions of people who would move in on it for the wealth without understanding or believing in the principles that created the wealth?

 

[PAF]

In other words you don't believe that there is anything we should do to actively secure the border.

I can tell you what to do about the NSA, you can campaign against it with your elected officials, you can sue and try to take the case to SCOTUS or you can launch a revolution.
I can't guarantee that any of those will succeed but those are the things you can do about it.

Am I wrong in the first line of this post? Is there ANYTHING you believe we can do to improve active border security?

Do you have any idea how a libertarian country with no border or immigration controls is supposed to avoid losing its liberty to the millions of people who would move in on it for the wealth without understanding or believing in the principles that created the wealth?

You just answered your own question. Contact every elected official throughout the country. Demand that you do not want another cent spent or piece of sh|t legislation passed. Tell them that they are being paid to enforce the current law, and that you insist government workers start earning their paycheck.

I (actually many of us) have been doing that in my state, the anarchist that I am. Perhaps you and others here can do the same in your states, the republicans that you are ;-)

 

[Swordsmyth]

You just answered your own question. Contact every elected official throughout the country. Demand that you do not want another cent spent or piece of sh|t legislation passed. Tell them that they are being paid to enforce the current law, and that you insist government workers start earning their paycheck.

I (actually many of us) have been doing that in my state, the anarchist that I am. Perhaps you and others here can do the same in your states, the republicans that you are ;-)

And demand that they do what?
Expand the Border Patrol?
Put the Military on the border?
Expand ICE and increase workplace raids?
Reduce immigration quotas?
Tighten the asylum system and impose quotas on it?


What measures would you find acceptable that we should campaign for?