As curfew lifts, full scale of chaos across Egypt becomes clear

[ibaghdadi]

I'm not linking or copying from any news agency, rather I'm collecting from my own sources.

There's a complete breakdown in security in parts of Cairo, Alexandria, and all of Suez. Funerals will be held today for those killed yesterday, and are very likely to turn violent, meanwhile there is no police or security presence to stop any violence.

In Suez, demonstrators overran police stations and took their weapons, and are now chasing and shooting at any policemen they see. Policemen have been ordered to flee and fall back outside Suez.

In Alexandria and Cairo the army has positioned itself at "sensitive" buildings. Army is not interfering to stop demonstrations or impose curfew, and are only protecting these said buildings. Meanwhile tens of buildings are still on fire, including numerous police stations and government buildings.

Sporadic looting of police stations and government buildings took place yesterday and continues today. Rioters took guns from police stations and just about everything they could find in government buildings.

Activists have called for a joint militia to be formed with some army personnel to defend neighborhoods from possible criminal activities, similar to the militias formed in Tunisia after Ben Ali's government collapsed.

Demonstrators said that even in their wildest dreams they did not expect a police state to completely break down in a few hours. They have upped their demands when they saw their own success and now want nothing less than Mubarak out.

Mubarak's speech has enraged people more than placating anything.

Demonstrators are extremely enraged by reports that the US has "backed the revolt". One of them asked "Did they send the rebels 1.3billion dollars a year for 30 years?" The common Egyptian sees this as his own revolution and doesn't want it to be co-opted even by Egyptian political parties, let alone the United States.

Personally I think reports of US aid for the revolt is simply an attempt by the US government to cover its bases on both sides in case the regime collapses. If these reports continue the revolt can turn anti-American and that won't be good for anybody.

Finally let me share the "picture of the day":

 

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

Thanks for posting this !

 

[DirtMcGirt]

Thanks for the updates, it definitely appears the politicians here are hedging their bets concerning Egypt... related to your post, Lifehacker posted "How to Foil a Nationwide Internet Shutdown" Decent info, some of the comments have some good insight. Stay safe Ibaghdadi...
http://lifehacker.com/5746046/how-to-foil-a-nationwide-internet-shutdown

 

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

Ibaghdadi, Please tell your Egyptian friends that our government does not represent us and there are many good people here who are watching with amazement and only wish them the best. Also, a man I know here in my town from Oman told me yesterday that his family was telling him there were crowds gathering around government buildings in Oman and they were watching the situation closely. Any word on that over in your area?

 

[ibaghdadi]

Ibaghdadi, Please tell your Egyptian friends that our government does not represent us and there are many good people here who are watching with amazement and only wish them the best.

I feel you man, but it just isn't that easy. Demonstrators can clearly see "Made in USA" on the teargas cannisters being fired at them. Actions talk far, far louder than words. Reports that "USA backed the rebels" from the Telegraph made things way worse today, people feel the United States is trying to coopt their own revolution. Educated people make a clear distinction between the American people and the American government, but actions speak far louder than words.

It's truly inspiring the positive messages I'm getting from all over the world - USA, Japan, France, etc., but there's really no way to tell people in Egypt about them since internet is still down. Landlines are still working but no one is home.

Also, a man I know here in my town from Oman told me yesterday that his family was telling him there were crowds gathering around government buildings in Oman and they were watching the situation closely. Any word on that over in your area?

Didn't hear about anything in Oman and no one is reported it, I don't see it happening there really, I'll try to explain why when things quiet down in Egypt and we have time for analysis.

 

[teacherone]

I feel you man, but it just isn't that easy. Demonstrators can clearly see "Made in USA" on the teargas cannisters being fired at them. Actions talk far, far louder than words. Reports that "USA backed the rebels" from the Telegraph made things way worse today, people feel the United States is trying to coopt their own revolution. Educated people make a clear distinction between the American people and the American government, but actions speak far louder than words..

my god. we are such mother fuckers.

 

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

my god. we are such mother fuckers.

Sadly, the majority of Americans have no idea, even in this day and age, that our country does this crap. We really need to start doing a better job on teaching people about blowback and making people listen to what we are doing around the world.

 

[dizi24]

As someone who has followed this closely on Al-Jazeera, has lived in Egypt for a long time, and has many Egyptian friends, I have to say your analysis of everything is spot on. Only thing I disagree with is that this might turn anti-America. Especially if the US makes a mostly symbolic gesture of cutting off aid. There may be strong anti-American sentiments within Cairo, but their focus will remain on their own government unless the US tries to step in.

Egyptians want this to be an Egyptian revolution. A couple of my Egyptian facebook friends were a little dismayed with Hillary Clinton's speech, basically saying, this is our revolution, let Egypt decide its fate.

In my opinion, the revolt is in a tough situation at this point. Clearly, the mostly peaceful protests are not going to be enough to oust Mubarak. He has nothing to lose by waiting them out. He's made it 30 years at this point, and he dearly wants to hold on. Unfortunately, I think the protesters need to find some way to make Mubarak feel uncomfortable, but the military is protecting places and people that are vital to his rule. None of the protesters want to rebel against the military, but if they're blocking any chance for real change, it puts them in a tough position.

 

[Kludge]

An anti-US Egypt may be our greatest opportunity right now to get the USG out of the Middle East. It may be our greatest opportunity right now to dissuade Israel from lethal, arrogant policy. - And nothing would terrify US leaders more than a resurgent Pan-Arab movement or revolution spreading to other Arab nations the USG is occupying - like Iraq or Afghanistan, both of which recently saw anti-gov't bombings and resurgence of the insurgency. This is great material for the Taliban and other anti-US forces. WE NEED THIS.

It needs to be pushed as hard as we are able -- Joe Biden's defense of Mubarak and the $68b the USG has given (the vast majority in military aid) to the Government of Egypt. The images of the chemical weapons by the US - we need those to saturate the Internet.

 

[Baptist]

Sadly, the majority of Americans have no idea, even in this day and age, that our country does this crap. We really need to start doing a better job on teaching people about blowback and making people listen to what we are doing around the world.

It makes me sad when I think about it. I've been looking at places to live abroad and there are entire segments of the globe I cannot live because of our government. The CIA literally runs all of South America with their puppet dictators. We have screwed the Middle East so bad that I would not feel safe over there because of anti-American resentment (which is deserved). All of western Europe is off limits because I'm trying to flee big government, not go to bigger government. Much of Asia like the Philippines, Japan and S Korea are basically our colonies.

 

[PatriotOne]

Demonstrators are extremely enraged by reports that the US has "backed the revolt". One of them asked "Did they send the rebels 1.3billion dollars a year for 30 years?" The common Egyptian sees this as his own revolution and doesn't want it to be co-opted even by Egyptian political parties, let alone the United States.

Personally I think reports of US aid for the revolt is simply an attempt by the US government to cover its bases on both sides in case the regime collapses. If these reports continue the revolt can turn anti-American and that won't be good for anybody.

Thanks for the updates. Always interesting. I can understand why the people wouldn't want to think the US had anything to do with thier revolution but........the US use to send foreign aid to Saddam Hussein also. Then we bombed the shit out of his country and hung him.

 

[prmd142]

I don't think this is the right kind of revolution. Egyptians probably never experienced the true meaning of liberty unlike the US. they are asking for more facilities from government, they are asking for the government to give them jobs. they are asking the government to control the sky rocketing prices without knowing that the government action (not inaction) is the cause for all these and the solution is not more goverment action but they should be demanding the government to get out of the way. Can anyone link to some source that tells what exactly are they demanding?

 

[pcosmar]

I don't think this is the right kind of revolution. Egyptians probably never experienced the true meaning of liberty unlike the US. they are asking for more facilities from government, they are asking for the government to give them jobs. they are asking the government to control the sky rocketing prices without knowing that the government action (not inaction) is the cause for all these and the solution is not more goverment action but they should be demanding the government to get out of the way. Can anyone link to some source that tells what exactly are they demanding?

It is very clear if you have been following the story.
They want the Puppet Government of Mubarak GONE.
They want free elections so they can choose their own leadership.
They have lived under a US backed Brutal Dictatorship for 30 years. They are fed up with it.

 

[Kludge]

Who are the potential new leaders? If the Muslim Brotherhood rises to power, can Egyptians expect more liberty domestically? Assuming the NDP had loyal supporters, where will they place their chips? If the Muslim Brotherhood rises to power, what kind of reaction can we expect from Israel?

Is there any evidence of this revolution being hijacked by US-backed leaders?

 

[Dreamofunity]

 

[puppetmaster]

Who are the potential new leaders? If the Muslim Brotherhood rises to power, can Egyptians expect more liberty domestically? Assuming the NDP had loyal supporters, where will they place their chips? If the Muslim Brotherhood rises to power, what kind of reaction can we expect from Israel?

Is there any evidence of this revolution being hijacked by US-backed leaders?

is it any of our business?
lets stay home and figure out how to fix the huge mess we have created here.

we can cultivate a respectful relationship with whom ever takes power if we become a respectful country again.

 

[Kludge]

is it any of our business?
lets stay home and figure out how to fix the huge mess we have created here.

we can cultivate a respectful relationship with whom ever takes power if we become a respectful country again.

It's in our interest because it's our government's business. A new Egypt could make or break US efforts to occupy Arab nations. There's a lot at stake here.

 

[pcosmar]

It's in our interest because it's our government's business. A new Egypt could make or break US efforts to occupy Arab nations. There's a lot at stake here.

It is interesting. That is why it bears watching.
There are also several tactical lessons to be learned. But only if you're capable of learning.

My personal belief is that the people there should choose their own government, regardless of what kind of government they choose.

That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

 

[puppetmaster]

It's in our interest because it's our government's business. A new Egypt could make or break US efforts to occupy Arab nations. There's a lot at stake here.

There's the rub, we do not need to occupy any country except our own.

now if we could get the Israeli people to stand up to their corrupt Government....then I would get excited.

 

[ibaghdadi]

Who are the potential new leaders? If the Muslim Brotherhood rises to power, can Egyptians expect more liberty domestically? Assuming the NDP had loyal supporters, where will they place their chips? If the Muslim Brotherhood rises to power, what kind of reaction can we expect from Israel? Is there any evidence of this revolution being hijacked by US-backed leaders?

You bring up an important question with a very complex answer, Kludge. Here's what happening so far.

All political parties agree that they need a transitional period with a government of national unity. The Muslim Brotherhood already said they're not interested in ruling at the moment. This either means that they are confident they would win any next elections, or they don't want the revolution to be painted as "Islamic", giving foreign powers a pretext to interfere.

Demonstrators are vehemently resisting painting "their" revolution as a political one; most of them do not belong to any party at all. There's a consensus right now that talking of "which party" will rule next is rather cheap and not very nationalistic. I remember one report saying "Don't call it Ikhwani or Wafdi or this or that, it's popular, popular, popular".

There's also a consensus among political parties that if the army does not intervene to bring down the regime, there's little they can do at this point without risking more violence. Everyone seems to be waiting it out and concentrating on the demonstrations themselves rather than political maneuvers or negotiations.

Additionally, everyone seems to agree that there must be a compromise as to the personality of the "interim president", many don't mind if he's a pro-US figure so long this guarantees Mubarak is out and free elections can be held for the post-Mubarak era. In other words they don't mind if something is "brokered".