Arthur Laffer vs Tom Bilyeu: Will America Escape the Debt Collapse This Time?

[Danke]

 

[Danke]

 

[acptulsa]

The US government is purposely bringing on the debt collapse.

 

[Madison320]

The US government is purposely bringing on the debt collapse.

I doubt they actually want the collapse. Most of them will be ruined when the dollar collapses.

They're just trying to stay in power and the best way to do that is to give out free shit in return for votes.

 

[Invisible Man]

I doubt they actually want the collapse. Most of them will be ruined when the dollar collapses.

They're just trying to stay in power and the best way to do that is to give out free shit in return for votes.

Yes. This is one of the problems with democracy. It creates a perverse incentive for politicians to pay the cost of satisfying the wants of their supporters for the immediate future between now and their next election at the expense of the more distant future. The eventual collapse is the consequence of this, not the goal (at least not the goal of the politicians).

 

[Occam's Banana]

I doubt they actually want the collapse. Most of them will be ruined when the dollar collapses.

They're just trying to stay in power and the best way to do that is to give out free shit in return for votes.

Yes. This is one of the problems with democracy. It creates a perverse incentive for politicians to pay the cost of satisfying the wants of their supporters for the immediate future between now and their next election at the expense of the more distant future. The eventual collapse is the consequence of this, not the goal (at least not the goal of the politicians).

To paraphrase Upton Sinclair: it is difficult to get politicians to understand a thing when their positions and self-images depend upon their not understanding it.

Then add various "court advisors" (economists and other academics, bureaucrats, lobbyists, etc.) whose positions and self-images depend upon affirming and validating the "understandings" of politicians, and you end up with a self-reinforcing "feedback" dynamic in which most of them (politicians and their courtiers) have an unconsciously vested interest in being (and remaining) blind to the worst consequences of their policies and actions.

Even the relatively few who have some genuine degree of awareness that "things can't go on like this" indefinitely will - by the same dynamic - convince themselves that the can can be kicked down the road, at least past the end of their own tenures.

No grand conspiracy to engineer some kind of collapse is necessary - just the coincidence of mutual interests that naturally arise and evolve under the operation of overweening mass democracy at scale.

None of which is to say there are none at all who desire or actively seek collapse (or at least some kind of massively transfiguring dislocation) to their own advantage. But they are opportunistic exploiters who exacerbate the dynamic; they are not the creators or designers of it.

 

[acptulsa]

I doubt they actually want the collapse. Most of them will be ruined when the dollar collapses.

They're just trying to stay in power and the best way to do that is to give out free shit in return for votes.

Whether Congress and Trump and/or any bureaucrats know what they're doing, whether they're making their own investments vulnerable or not, or if they're just following orders, the policy is what it is. Perhaps you don't like that characterization; should we substitute earning themselves insider information and campaign contributions? And in the information age, nobody with enough sense to be able to make themselves that powerful could possibly not know that these policies are leading to currency collapse.

Ergo, some people with enough power to do so are deliberately destroying the FRN.

 

[Madison320]

Whether Congress and Trump and/or any bureaucrats know what they're doing, whether they're making their own investments vulnerable or not, or if they're just following orders, the policy is what it is. Perhaps you don't like that characterization; should we substitute earning themselves insider information and campaign contributions? And in the information age, nobody with enough sense to be able to make themselves that powerful could possibly not know that these policies are leading to currency collapse.

Ergo, some people with enough power to do so are deliberately destroying the FRN.

I think many of them know they can't keep overspending forever. They're just hoping it doesn't collapse on their watch.

 

[acptulsa]

I think many of them know they can't keep overspending forever. They're just hoping it doesn't collapse on their watch.

Why are they doubling and tripling and quadrupling down?

What you say wouldn't surprise me one bit. But if they aren't marching to orders, why are they deliberately making the problem worse -- much worse -- as if they wanted the FRN dead? Do you think they're doing insider trading in everything profiting? Are they in every medical provider profiting from elective surgeries and every company providing free things to illegals and every media outlet contracting to do Hasbara and every judge getting bribed to let the criminally insane loose and and and...?

 

[Snowball]

I doubt they actually want the collapse. Most of them will be ruined when the dollar collapses.

They're just trying to stay in power and the best way to do that is to give out free shit in return for votes.

I disagree. They intentionally "created" and distributed the dollars amongst themselves for a solid 25 years, since Greenspan's Y2K b.s.
That's when it went "another level"... and over the last 25 years (it did happen before, but not on the present scale) -- those dollars were put directly into the hands of a conspiratorial group, which distributed them to appointed leaders, and they were used to buyout competition, and solidify societal control, direct business and politics; all the time the participants, who are global, used the dollars their bosses created to expand their power and acquire real assets. Bitcoin itself is also an example of this. The intentional rise and legitimization of "crypto" is a sign that they are done with the people's money, a.k.a. the dollar, or FRN. It was a conduit, a tool they used and abused. The tool will be tossed in the trash or recycled into another tool.

 

[Madison320]

I disagree. They intentionally "created" and distributed the dollars amongst themselves for a solid 25 years, since Greenspan's Y2K b.s.
That's when it went "another level"... and over the last 25 years (it did happen before, but not on the present scale) -- those dollars were put directly into the hands of a conspiratorial group, which distributed them to appointed leaders, and they were used to buyout competition, and solidify societal control, direct business and politics; all the time the participants, who are global, used the dollars their bosses created to expand their power and acquire real assets. Bitcoin itself is also an example of this. The intentional rise and legitimization of "crypto" is a sign that they are done with the people's money, a.k.a. the dollar, or FRN. It was a conduit, a tool they used and abused. The tool will be tossed in the trash or recycled into another tool.

Usually during periods of hyperinflation (dollar collapse) the real value of assets likes stocks plummet. I'm assuming most of the political leaders in the US would lose bigtime. Leaders in BRICS countries might want it to happen though.

 

[acptulsa]

Usually during periods of hyperinflation (dollar collapse) the real value of assets likes stocks plummet. I'm assuming most of the political leaders in the US would lose bigtime. Leader in BRICS countries might want it to happen though.

Current politicians: So? I get insider information, so my stocks only go up. If you try to tell me otherwise I'll get arrogant because I don't even want to think about that happening.

The people who jerk their marionette strings: So? Do you know how much gold was in Ft. Knox? Do you have any idea how much of it I already glommed onto?