was ron paul wrong on this?

[garrettwombat]

ron paul says "the constitution says only use gold and silver" and it be the only constitutional means of currancy,


i told this to my friend:

the dollar is actually supposed to be backed by gold as informed in the constitution. .

his response:

Only individual States. That is why it was Constitutional for USA to leave the Gold Standard.


Section 10 - Powers prohibited of States
No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

 

[nate895]

Well, that is technically the case, but the founders never had the Federal Government issuing currency, only setting the standards for currency.

 

[Austin]

ron paul says "the constitution says only use gold and silver" and it be the only constitutional means of currancy,

First, a quick disclaimer. I'm not expert, nothing close to it, actually.

I think in order to answer this question, you have to look deeper than the obvious text of the Constitution, into the original intent of the founders when it was written. Though, legally, it may be permissible to remove the country off of the gold standard, it's hard to argue that it is something the founders would have allowed. Even then, the fact that the "states" only have fiat money to pay their debts due to the lack of any other type of legal tender, seems to trump the previous statement regarding the legality of the removal of a gold standard.

Perhaps someone else can shed some more light on the question? I think I just brought more questions to the table, rather than answering the one already presented.

 

[nate895]

Power given to Congress:

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

Last I checked, the printing bills doesn't constitute coining.

 

[TruthAtLast]

Power given to Congress:

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

Last I checked, the printing bills doesn't constitute coining.

so why don't they mint a 9 trillion dollar coin and pay off the national debt?

It is all based on accepted value anyway.

 

[Rhys]

ron paul says "the constitution says only use gold and silver" and it be the only constitutional means of currancy,


i told this to my friend:



his response:

i asked my friend that question. he's a lawyer and he said that the federal government can do what ever they want with currency but States have to use gold or silver if they mint money. also, he didn't say this but when the constitution was written, there wasn't any federal money. I think Hammelton made federal money.

 

[runderwo]

Power given to Congress:

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

Last I checked, the printing bills doesn't constitute coining.

The Federal Reserve is a "hack" on the Constitution. As they say, it's neither Federal nor a Reserve. It's a private bank, which just happens to have the privilege of having legal tender status assigned to the dollars it emits. It also regulates the value of its own money, again as a private institution. The Bureau of Printing and Engraving prints the actual money, which is where the Constitutional question comes in. It is also Constitutionally questionable that we are forced to settle our private debts in FRNs. Although for purposes of government tracking everything we do, and taxing it accordingly, this is the most convenient system for the bureaucrats and statists.

 

[nullvalu]

Hmm does that mean that if I became governor of my state, I could legally create and issue a gold/silver based currency for use within my state?

 

[Rhys]

Hmm does that mean that if I became governor of my state, I could legally create and issue a gold/silver based currency for use within my state?

depends on your state constitution, but my guess is from the legistlature

 

[diesirae]

Power given to Congress:

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

Last I checked, the printing bills doesn't constitute coining.

The US Supreme Court has repeatedly rejected this argument:

“The constitutional authority of Congress to provide a currency for the whole country is now firmly established ... By the constitution of the United States, the several states are prohibited from coining money, emitting bills of credit, or making anything but gold or silver a tender of payment of debts. But no intention can be inferred from these to deny to Congress either of these powers.... Under the power to borrow money on the credit of the United States, and to issue circulating notes for the money borrowed, its powers to define the quality and force of those notes as currency is as broad as the like power over a metallic currency under the power to coin money and to regulate the value thereof. Under the two powers, taken together, Congress is authorized to established a national currency, either in coin or in paper and to make the currency lawful money for all purposes, as regards the national government or private individuals.”

Juilliard v. Greenman, 110 U.S. 421, 446 (1884).

In fact, the whole point of those two clauses was to strip from the States the ability to print money; leaving the power with the US government. The Continental Congress explicitly considered barring the Federal Government from issuing paper money, but decided against it.

 

[nate895]

The US Supreme Court has repeatedly rejected this argument:



In fact, the whole point of those two clauses was to strip from the States the ability to print money; leaving the power with the US government. The Continental Congress explicitly considered barring the Federal Government from issuing paper money, but decided against it.

You do understand that the Supreme Court is full of bull, and hasn't followed the law one iota since the "new deal" and it was shaky from the very get go.

 

[Rhys]

You do understand that the Supreme Court is full of bull, and hasn't followed the law one iota since the "new deal" and it was shaky from the very get go.

the Supreme Court by law is not full of bull.

 

[nate895]

the Supreme Court by law is not full of bull.

By law, then, the Congress can enact the PATRIOT act because it isn't forbidden to do so.

 

[Rhys]

By law, then, the Congress can enact the PATRIOT act because it isn't forbidden to do so.

not if the Supreme Court declares it unconstitutional when challaged. However, if the Supreme Court does not declare it unconstitutional, it's not.

 

[nate895]

not if the Supreme Court declares it unconstitutional when challaged. However, if the Supreme Court does not declare it unconstitutional, it's not.

Are you seriously arguing the SC follows the Constitution? Internet sarcasm is hard to detect without the /sarcasm at the end of the post.

 

[Mr. White]

What he's saying is that folks on these boards toss the word unconstitutional around without really understanding what the fuck they're talking about. The Supreme Court determines if something's unconstitutional. Not you. Not Ron Paul. You can argue from a political standpoint that something is or isn't Constitutional, that's what Bush's 'Signing Statements' are, but the buck stops and starts with the SC in determining actual constitutionality.

 

[crazyfingers]

Are you seriously arguing the SC follows the Constitution? Internet sarcasm is hard to detect without the /sarcasm at the end of the post.

I think he's just saying that is how the system works. If the Supreme Court declares something constitutional, then according to the letter of the law, it is. Of course it can always be overturned.

I haven't looked into the gold standard much, but I doubt Paul is wrong on this (or much of anything). In fact he wrote a book on it.

 

[Knightskye]

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

Case closed. Ron Paul was right - bit of a shocker, right?

 

[AJ Antimony]

Huh? Why would each state be allowed to issue its own currency? That was one of the huge problems with the Articles of Confederation and corrected in the Constitution by having a single, national currency.

 

[filmmaker58]

The mineral for the 9 trillion dollar coin has not been discovered yet. It will be called Ronpaulium, and when you touch it you are compelled to tell the truth.