Thought Experiment: Tax Free Society

[denison]

Ok, I've been mulling this over in my mind. First of all everyone is welcome to contribute to this thread. Second of all I'm not an economist, so a lot of people here will know more about this subject than me.

When I talk about tax free society, I mean completely:

-No income tax
-No sales tax
-No capital gains tax
-No property tax
-No inheritance tax etc....

The thinks that would drive this society:
-Philanthropy
-Charity/Charitable organization(instead of welfare/free social services)
-Capitalism/ Free trade/ Maximize competition

A society like this would have to have a small limited government. The government would not be an employer or collect taxes(no IRS) from people. If the people wanted new roads, better schools, better parks etc... they would get together raise the money, get the job done themselves. Firstly I think a society like this would have to be fully privatized. Private police(see article below), private healthcare, private schools, private prisons etc....

Benefits of Privatization:
- Private police - higher salary, no immunity like government police
- Private healthcare - less rationing, better services
- Private schools - higher test scores than public school
- Private prisons - could use criminals as labor force to pay off their debt

In fact I think the only tax should be a "criminal tax". So really, any law abiding citizen would be living in a completely tax free society. People who commit misdemeanors could be taxed at 1-10% for 1 - 5 yrs for punishment, or whatever rate you want to use. Harsher criminals(but not murders, rapist, pedos) could work on a prison labor force to work off their debt directly as punishment.

Criminals work off debt for Private Police:
http://scottsafetyshop.com/blog/2007/08/15/i-suggest-private-police/

Private Police - How it would work
http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/polin/polin017.pdf (explains how poor people would be covered too)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_police

http://scottsafetyshop.com/blog/2008/03/12/private-police-to-stop-and-catch-violent-criminals/

Private Prisons:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prison

Free free to add how you think a society like this would work or wouldn't. It's just a thought experiment.

 

[Mini-Me]

Hi, welcome to the boards! I think the anarcho-capitalists here have found a new friend.

We've definitely had a lot of discussions and flame wars on this very subject, and it's generally called the minarchy vs. anarchy debate...so don't take it personally if people end up avoiding this thread like the plague out of exhaustion. Personally, I'm very open to this idea, but you'll definitely find some people here who will disagree...and others who will accept no substitute.

I don't have the time to get into an involved discussion at the moment, but I just wanted to pull a hit and run and say welcome!

 

[ChaosControl]

Did you just post this the other day on another forum as I just saw that there too.
And like I said there, I fully support a tax free society.

 

[Bucjason]

Why don't we aim for more realistic goals, like eliminating the income tax for the fair tax ??

The only problem with your theory, IMO, is that not everyone would assume equal responsonsibility for the services in that society. If you have a group of dead-beats that refuse to contribute ANY money, then it means the rest of us have to all pay MORE if we want a road to drive on.

Or suppose you live in a crime infested area, and want to start a fund raiser to hire more police . Do you think your criminal neighbors are going to contribute to that fund? Hell no.

 

[tremendoustie]

Welcome denison!

I agree completetly, although I think for pay services might be the norm in some places, when charity for whatever reason doesn't work.

Why don't we aim for more realistic goals, like eliminating the income tax for the fair tax ??

The only problem with your theory, IMO, is that not everyone would assume equal responsonsibility for the services in that society. If you have a group of dead-beats that refuse to contribute ANY money, then it means the rest of us have to all pay MORE if we want a road to drive on.

Or suppose you live in a crime infested area, and want to start a fund raiser to hire more police . Do you think your criminal neighbors are going to contribute to that fund? Hell no.

As I say, easy solution where charity isn't working: Pay roads -- could be by toll, advertising, subscription, etc., and subscription security service. So, if you think Police Department A is doing a great job for a good price, subscribe to them, or if you don't subscribe to PD B. Or, if you have a Deagle, security fence, and a guard dog, subscribe to no one and defend yourself.

 

[pahs1994]

Just my 2 cents. A "criminal tax" could become an incentive for cops or judges to charge inocent people just to get tax money. I can see higher up people putting pressure on them to do this in order to get the tax revenue. Kind of like the same effect as cops settin traps and pulling over people and dropping huge fines for very minor traffic violations just to fill a quota.

 

[mediahasyou]

Welcome to Market Anarchism. You are right my friend. Every single government service can be provided by businesses and will be provided better (as we all know).

Here's a great book that outline's how the tax-free market anarchism would work: http://www.mississaugatherapy.com/FDR_Books/FDR_5_Practical_Anarchy.pdf

Enjoy.

 

[max]

This would DEFINITELY work!

I would give every American worker the option to have a percentage of his income zapped out of his check each week....voluntary contributions...
the state should have Jerry Lewis type telethons to raise money as well as lotteries

 

[FSP-Rebel]

Why don't we aim for more realistic goals, like eliminating the income tax for the fair tax ??

The only problem with your theory, IMO, is that not everyone would assume equal responsonsibility for the services in that society. If you have a group of dead-beats that refuse to contribute ANY money, then it means the rest of us have to all pay MORE if we want a road to drive on.

Or suppose you live in a crime infested area, and want to start a fund raiser to hire more police . Do you think your criminal neighbors are going to contribute to that fund? Hell no.

I don't favor ending the income tax to just institute a fair tax - which isn't even smart in a depressionary time like now. The fair tax would cripple the economy like no other, plus it isn't even a sure thing that the income tax would be repealed, thus we could have both - just knowing how trustworthy the pushers of the fair tax are, think Huckabee.

The second point you make about not everyone doing their part is moot, cause private communities would be based on private contracts that are able to be hashed out in arbitration. If you didn't like the rules of one community, then you could choose from many others or just move out in the middle of nowhere and do your own thing. People could pay for roads by subscription fees (think magazines) or by advertising or by people taking care of the road directly in front of their property.

Regarding crime, it only happens where there's massive amounts of gun control that keeps the law-abiding at a disadvantage to said criminals. Again, you don't move into a crime-ridden neighborhood if you care about safety. An armed society is a polite society. W/o a war on drugs, you'd have very little crime across the board.

 

[tremendoustie]

Oh, yeah, I should say I also disagree with criminals paying for the police. Criminals should be forced to pay compensation to the victim, or work to pay the victim if they don't have money. The people who recieve the police services should pay the police.

Criminals paying police I think lends itself to police abuse, and it's not fundamentally just either -- the criminal harmed the victim, not the police. Plus, I think having to work to pay a victim is far more likely to lead to rehabilitation than just being locked up and idle for a period of time with other criminals. Of course, those who continue to be a danger to others will need to be in some kind of secure environment.

 

[Vessol]

As I always respond to these. Works in a smaller setting, but not in a large 300 million people big setting.

-Fin

 

[IPSecure]

How to end ALL Taxation:

Walter Burien (CAFR1.com) has a solution

How to end ALL Taxation: TaxRetirement.com

 

[heavenlyboy34]

welcome to the boards-aka the looney bin-OP. I like your free-thinking style already! Looking forward to getting to know ya. ~HB34~

 

[Endgame]

I was wondering if it would be possible for a very small and frugal government to be funded mainly by interest income from a large reserve of cash. But wouldn't that make the government a bank of sorts?

 

[tremendoustie]

As I always respond to these. Works in a smaller setting, but not in a large 300 million people big setting.

-Fin

Right, voluntary interactions, and violence only in self defense, works until we hit a few million people, and then the only way to get along is to start extorting money from each other .

And the second amendment no longer applies because we don't use muskets ...

 

[denison]

Wow

Hi, welcome to the boards! I think the anarcho-capitalists here have found a new friend.

We've definitely had a lot of discussions and flame wars on this very subject, and it's generally called the minarchy vs. anarchy debate...so don't take it personally if people end up avoiding this thread like the plague out of exhaustion. Personally, I'm very open to this idea, but you'll definitely find some people here who will disagree...and others who will accept no substitute.

I don't have the time to get into an involved discussion at the moment, but I just wanted to pull a hit and run and say welcome!

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...=&as_occt=any&cr=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&safe=images

Wow, you're right. I did a seach and seems to have come up alot. Haha. Now I have to spend all day and night reading all those old thread. Anyways, thank you for the warm welcome. This forum should be fun.

 

[denison]

Just my 2 cents. A "criminal tax" could become an incentive for cops or judges to charge inocent people just to get tax money. I can see higher up people putting pressure on them to do this in order to get the tax revenue. Kind of like the same effect as cops settin traps and pulling over people and dropping huge fines for very minor traffic violations just to fill a quota.

You're right, I can see that easily being abused. Hmm. I don't know. The small limited government has to be funded some how. :o I'll have to think about that.

 

[denison]

Welcome to Market Anarchism. You are right my friend. Every single government service can be provided by businesses and will be provided better (as we all know).

Here's a great book that outline's how the tax-free market anarchism would work: http://www.mississaugatherapy.com/FDR_Books/FDR_5_Practical_Anarchy.pdf

Enjoy.

Thanks, this makes for interesting read. I never new there was so much information on this subject. I'm gonna be busy all week reading stuff.

 

[denison]

Oh, yeah, I should say I also disagree with criminals paying for the police. Criminals should be forced to pay compensation to the victim, or work to pay the victim if they don't have money. The people who recieve the police services should pay the police.

Criminals paying police I think lends itself to police abuse, and it's not fundamentally just either -- the criminal harmed the victim, not the police. Plus, I think having to work to pay a victim is far more likely to lead to rehabilitation than just being locked up and idle for a period of time with other criminals. Of course, those who continue to be a danger to others will need to be in some kind of secure environment.

Your right. That's actually what I mean. The criminals pay the poor victims, who use that money to fund the private police.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Thanks, this makes for interesting read. I never new there was so much information on this subject. I'm gonna be busy all week reading stuff.

Thank you for your thoughtful consideration of market anarchism.