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This “Private Business” Thing...

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This “Private Business” Thing...

This “Private Business” Thing . . .

https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2021/05/19/this-private-property-business/

By eric - May 19, 2021

Do “private businesses” have the right – morally – to require that customers wear Face Diapers as a condition of entry? And are customers morally obliged to respect such conditions?

If they do – and if they are – then it seems logical that “private businesses” also have the right to require that people submit to medical procedures as a condition of entry, such as being injected with whatever’s in those Needles practically chasing Americans around like something out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon – but without the humor.

Many conservatives and even some libertarians have answered in the affirmative – taking the position that “private businesses” have every right to insist upon the former and – therefore – have already answered in the affirmative regarding the latter.

But are they right?

It is important to define our terms before we proceed to debate.

What is “private property”?

And what does it mean, today?

It is generally taken to mean land, physical structures on the land and things of that nature lawfully (and morally) owned by the private individuals who acquired the property by free exchange and who therefore have the exclusive right to possess and – the other side of the coin – to control it. Including the prerogative to restrict or deny others the use of it or access to it on the basis of the moral principle that it isn’t their property. Because others did not pay for it. Therefore, others have no right to it. They may be allowed to use it or have access to it, at the discretion of the owner, who grants such access and use as a conditional privilege – according to whatever terms he sets forth.

As distinct from what is styled “public” property – taken to mean land, physical structures on the land and things of that nature that the government controls and which the public is compelled to finance via taxes and fees and for that reason is considered to have a legal as well as moral right to avail themselves of.

The problem is there’s no longer much distinction between these two things – especially as regards private businesses.

Their “private” status is denied by the government, for one thing. They are not the true owners of their property – in other than a technical sense – because they do not control it. The government does – via the setting of mandatory “terms and conditions” backed up by the force of government. So-called “private” businesses may only do business with the permission of the government and only as the government allows.

They are “private” in the sense that you are a “customer” of the DMV or the IRS.

All businesses operate under duress because none are free to set their own terms and conditions.

And all of them are compelled by the fact of this duress to set terms and conditions that are by definition affronts to liberty, both that of the putative owners as well as that of their customers.

For example, the nominal right of the owner – if private property existed and was respected – to not do business with anyone, for any reason.

Clearly, the supposed owners of “private” businesses in this country have no such right. Or rather, that right is not respected. Indeed, they have a legal obligation – enforced by government – to do business with everyone the government says they must, even when it is contrary to their own wishes – and often, at their own expense. As for example in the case of being compelled to modify their “private” property to accommodate disabled customers, even if the cost cannot be justified by an increase in business – which if it were so would mean no government force would be needed to compel the business to make the accommodation.

In that case – and many others of a piece – the “public” has acquired the legal right (via the force of government) to impose terms and conditions upon the owner, who is really more of a custodian.

Conversely, the putative “owner” of the business is obliged to impose the government’s terms and conditions upon all who wish to transact business with him, even if he personally opposes such terms and conditions.

In effect, the “private” business becomes – and this is the precise term used – a public accommodation.

Which means it is no longer a private business in any morally meaningful sense.

This does not mean we should accept or respect the “terms and conditions” of the statists who’ve transformed what was private property into what has become public accommodations. Libertarians especially should refrain from using the ugly principles established by the statists to impose their terms and conditions on what remains of private property. As for example by using the force of government to compel a business to do business with them.

It also ought not to serve as the justification for obvious violations of private property, such as the theft thereof.

But are libertarians and others who respect private property as a moral principle obliged to respect the use of private property by government as tool to undermine their rights? As by forcibly denying them the option to lawfully transact business anywhere unless they accede to the government’s terms and conditions, imposed by the fictionally private businesses, which are acting under duress?

This was – and to some extent, remains – the situation with regard to Face Diapers and is becoming the situation, with regard to Needles.

There is a qualitative difference between a private individual deciding, on his own, to engage in a business transaction with another private individual, neither of them acting under duress and both of them free to transact business with others, if they cannot arrive at mutually agreeable “terms and conditions” . . . and the Potemkin facade of “private businesses” – all of them acting under duress and acting in concert via the obeying of government’s terms and conditions, so as to eliminate the freedom to choose different ones.

A truly private business has every right to post a Face Diapers Required – or No Blacks Allowed – sign by the door and those who respect private property are obliged as a moral matter to respect those signs, even if they regard the sentiments expressed or the actions demanded as loathsome.

But such presumes other businesses are free to not post such signs.

Which, of course, many would – were they free to do so (especially as regards the Diapers). Which would mean that no one’s rights are affronted. The businesses that post objectionable-to-customers signs would not have the power to force other businesses to post the same signs. And customers would be free to do business with the businesses that did business in a way as acceptable to them as to the owners thereof.

But that is not the situation as it exists in this country right now – in which “private business” is a sick joke, on the owners and on us.

We – as customers – are no more obliged to obey or respect the government acting through proxies under duress than we are obliged to obey or respect the government itself. Is there a moral obligation to tell the truth to a government agent with a gun on his hip – out of respect for the principle of not lying?

It is suicidal to liberty to “respect” what isn’t – i.e., “private business” – especially when it is so obviously being used as a weapon against the very concept of rights. Those of the business owner – and those who wish to transact business.

This idea that people are honor-bound to “wear a mask” – or take the jab – or accept that they cannot rightfully shop unless they do, out of respect for private property, is as blinkered as the viewpoint that Jewish people in 1930s Germany were obliged to Heil Hitler! (or wear a yellow star) as a condition of entering a shop to buy their daily bread.

Evade, ignore. Shuck and jive. Ignore the signs. Walk right by. Make them tell you to leave. Don’t just mindlessly obey out of some misplaced sense of obligation.

Whatever it takes to protect your rights. And also for the sake of theirs.

When private businesses exist again, their right to set their (as opposed to government’s) terms and conditions should be respected again.

But not until – and not unless.
 
If this were about shops putting up signs that said, No Blacks, I bet Eric would sing a slightly different tune on this. (a tune I would generally sing along with)

A more compelling argument than the one being made, is to ignore edicts that are coerced by government. Clearly, many of the Mask Required signs would fall into this category.

At least for the arguments being made in the first half. He does touch on this coercion in the 2nd half of his article.
 
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Do “private businesses” have the right – morally – to require that customers wear Face Diapers as a condition of entry? And are customers morally obliged to respect such conditions?

If they do – and if they are – then it seems logical that “private businesses” also have the right to require that people submit to medical procedures as a condition of entry, such as being injected with whatever’s in those Needles practically chasing Americans around like something out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon – but without the humor.

Harvey Weinstein and people like him have long required employees to agree to certain "procedures" as a condition of employment...

So it's perfectly acceptable to require an employee to wear a masks or have an injection? (All injections are equal, but some injections are more equal than others.)
 
Harvey Weinstein and people like him have long required employees to agree to certain "procedures" as a condition of employment...

So it's perfectly acceptable to require an employee to wear a masks or have an injection? (All injections are equal, but some injections are more equal than others.)

As long as there are no government incentives/coercions to do so, I don't see why not.
 
"There's already too much government, and the solution to that is even more government" is an incredibly stupid argument.


Statists gonna state.
 
If this were about shops putting up signs that said, No Blacks, I bet Eric would sing a slightly different tune on this.[...]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but didn't he address that? FTA (bold emphasis added):
A truly private business has every right to post a Face Diapers Required – or No Blacks Allowed – sign by the door and those who respect private property are obliged as a moral matter to respect those signs, even if they regard the sentiments expressed or the actions demanded as loathsome.
 
"There's already too much government, and the solution to that is even more government" is an incredibly stupid argument.

Statists gonna state.

:confused: Who said (or even suggested or implied) that "the solution [...] is even more government"?
 
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It is suicidal to liberty to “respect” what isn’t – i.e., “private business” – especially when it is so obviously being used as a weapon against the very concept of rights. Those of the business owner – and those who wish to transact business.

This idea that people are honor-bound to “wear a mask” – or take the jab – or accept that they cannot rightfully shop unless they do, out of respect for private property, is as blinkered as the viewpoint that Jewish people in 1930s Germany were obliged to Heil Hitler! (or wear a yellow star) as a condition of entering a shop to buy their daily bread.

Evade, ignore. Shuck and jive. Ignore the signs. Walk right by. Make them tell you to leave. Don’t just mindlessly obey out of some misplaced sense of obligation.

That.

I refuse to wear a face diaper.

There is no criminal or civil sanction forcing me to.

A business can either keep quiet, we both go about our business and part happily.

Or call the cops on a charge of trespassing, cause a scene and negative experience of many other people and the loss of customer forever.
 
Once "private business" takes over enforcement of retard govt mandates are they really private at all ?
 
Once "private business" takes over enforcement of retard govt mandates are they really private at all ?

Nobody owns a single square inch of property, anywhere.

We are all just squatting serfs, doing the government's bidding.
 
Nobody owns a single square inch of property, anywhere.

We are all just squatting serfs, doing the government's bidding.

That seems accurate , therefore I'll just continue to do as I like and pay no attention to govt or private business rules. I'm really doing them a favor by showing them how foolish they are .
 
:confused: Who said (or even suggested or implied) that "the solution [...] is even more government"?



The problem is there’s no longer much distinction between these two things – especially as regards private businesses.

Their “private” status is denied by the government, for one thing. They are not the true owners of their property – in other than a technical sense – because they do not control it. The government does – via the setting of mandatory “terms and conditions” backed up by the force of government. So-called “private” businesses may only do business with the permission of the government and only as the government allows.

There is too much government...


In effect, the “private” business becomes – and this is the precise term used – a public accommodation.

Which means it is no longer a private business in any morally meaningful sense.

... therefore businesses should be treated - not only by the government, but also by the people - as completely owned by the public...


When private businesses exist again, their right to set their (as opposed to government’s) terms and conditions should be respected again.

But not until – and not unless.

... forever.
 
There is too much government...

... therefore businesses should be treated - not only by the government, but also by the people - as completely owned by the public...

... forever.

*sigh* Okay, I'll try this again (though I should probably know better by now):
:confused: Who said (or even suggested or implied) that "the solution [...] is even more government"?

To wit:
- What new (or old) law has been supported by whom?
- The enforcement of what proposed (or existing) legislation or regulation is being advocated for, and by whom?
- Who said that "businesses should [therefore] be treated [...] by the government [... as] owned by the public" (whether "completely" or not, or "also by the people" or not)?

IOW: What action by the government has in any way been endorsed by the author of the OP article or by any of the respondents to this thread thus far?
 
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IOW: What action by the government has in any way been endorsed by the author of the OP article or by any of the respondents to this thread thus far?

Furthering the idea that any and all commercial property (basically, anything that isn't a private residence) is a public place. Public in the communist sense, as owned by the people/state.


"I'm going to protest the idea that property owners do not have property rights by not respecting property owners' property rights"

is like protesting abortion by sending donations to planned parenthood
 
Furthering the idea that any and all commercial property (basically, anything that isn't a private residence) is a public place. Public in the communist sense, as owned by the people/state.

"I'm going to protest the idea that property owners do not have property rights by not respecting property owners' property rights"

is like protesting abortion by sending donations to planned parenthood

Congratulations!

You've managed to locate and describe yet another "Catch-22" in modern life.

These modern philosophical time rips are scattered all over, along with the rabbit holes of conspiracy theories.

Both serve the same function, to render one seeking information or truth into a brick wall of FUD.

I do not need to tie myself into knots, seeking permanent ground a cycle war.

Nor do I need to wrok myself up into this either.

Big Business has long since dropped any question of pushback from their mandated government edicts.

I therefore have no problem smacking them injunctions for violations of the bill of rights.
 
The problem is there’s no longer much distinction between these two things – especially as regards private businesses.

Their “private” status is denied by the government, for one thing. They are not the true owners of their property – in other than a technical sense – because they do not control it. The government does – via the setting of mandatory “terms and conditions” backed up by the force of government. So-called “private” businesses may only do business with the permission of the government and only as the government allows.

Peters is certainly right about what the status quo is.

But while pointing out what is, we shouldn't refrain from saying what ought to be.

At the heart of the libertarian position is opposition to the state of affairs described in the above quote.

To say that I now no longer oppose that state of affairs, but positively embrace it as a good and necessary thing in order to reign in business owners who might otherwise try to refuse to let people onto their properties without proof of vaccination entirely on their own initiative without any government involvement, is suicide.

I think that the approach Peters took in his previous similar article about how signs don't have rights, pointing out that, given that private business owners were acting under government duress when they put up signs requiring masks, such that the public should feel no duty to obey those signs out of respect for the property rights of those business owners, was much better than to positively support new regulations telling property owners under new government duress that they can't restrict access to their property to certain people of their choice, thus making private property even more the de facto property of the government, rather than less.
 
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but didn't he address that? FTA (bold emphasis added):

That is exactly what TheTexan said...Precisely in that quote, the tune Peters sings is a different one.

My position is the one Peters takes in the quote you just gave.
 
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but didn't he address that? FTA (bold emphasis added):

He makes 2 arguments:
1) The primary land occupants don't really "own" the land and therefore the land is considered public property and therefore their wishes don't deserve any respect
2) The primary land occupants are under duress and so the coerced signs they put up don't deserve any respect

My objection is to point #1. In #2 I am in agreement.

Their “private” status is denied by the government, for one thing. They are not the true owners of their property – in other than a technical sense – because they do not control it. The government does – via the setting of mandatory “terms and conditions” backed up by the force of government. So-called “private” businesses may only do business with the permission of the government and only as the government allows.

They are “private” in the sense that you are a “customer” of the DMV or the IRS.

When private businesses exist again, their right to set their (as opposed to government’s) terms and conditions should be respected again.
 
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He makes 2 arguments:
1) The primary land occupants don't really "own" the land and therefore the land is considered public property and therefore their wishes don't deserve any respect
2) The primary land occupants are under duress and so the coerced signs they put up don't deserve any respect

My objection is to point #1. In #2 I am in agreement.

A good test we can perform here is to flip the issues and ask:
Would you support a repeal of laws that prohibit private businesses from discriminating based on race?

Whatever someone's answer is to that one should be consistent with their answer when the basis of discrimination is some other criterion of the private business owners choice.

This was brought out not long ago by [MENTION=26252]James_Madison_Lives[/MENTION], and they were at least consistent in that they openly supported laws that declare businesses "public accommodations" and subject them to de facto government ownership as a result. I can't accept that position, but I at least respect JML's consistency on it.
 
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