• Welcome to our new home!

    Please share any thoughts or issues here.


The War on Guns Is Lost

Occam's Banana

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Messages
37,820
I love the smell of napalm in the morning cope in the early afternoon.

The New Republic admits defeat - or at least, one of its opinionators does.

"It is possible that we may lose. It is impossible that we must lose. That is the white pill." -- Michael Malice

The Grim Truth: The War on Guns Is Lost
There are more unregistered guns in this country than are possessed by the Pentagon, DHS, and police departments combined. And Republicans want more of them.
https://newrepublic.com/article/171784/grim-truth-war-guns-lost
Brynn Tannehill (10 April 2023)

[bold emphasis added - OB]

I wrote this article long before the latest mass shooting that just happened, this time in Louisville, Kentucky, because we all know the pattern, and it never changes. There’s a mass shooting and dead innocents, often children. Angry calls for Republicans to do something, and nothing gets done. The incident fades from the 24-hour news cycle, and we resume the waiting game for the next one. It’s Sisyphus with a boulder that rolls downhill and crushes him over and over for eternity.

That’s something that people who support gun control measures need to understand: The war is lost. There is no conceivable way for things to change for the better within the next 20 to 30 years, short of a national divorce. There is no way to change hearts and minds of Republicans or the courts. There is no way to change who is in office in most states. There is no way to replace who sits on the courts quickly or change conservative disdain for stare decisis.

In reality, mass shootings will only become more and more common over the next few years as Republicans have decided that the only solution to gun violence is adding as many guns as possible to the mix.

At the state level, gerrymandering ensures that red states will never put in place elected representatives who would pass gun control. With the primary system as it is, there is zero chance that Republican primaries in these states would suddenly start producing candidates who would support limiting access to guns, much less taking away assault rifles.

In blue states, they already know that there is no hope that the courts will uphold the laws they pass. The Supreme Court effectively overturned the California law that limited magazine size, after ruling in 2022 that states can do little to prevent anyone from buying a gun in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen. The conservative Fifth Circuit, based in New Orleans, ruled in 2023 that the Second Amendment prevents the government from taking guns from people under restraining orders for committing domestic violence. Nor is the government allowed to prevent them from buying guns.

Some Republicans still want to pretend that they’re engaging with the subject seriously: blaming mental health issues, video games, lack of prayer in schools, and transgender people for mass shootings. But this is simply a distraction: Other countries have all those things, but they don’t have mass shootings. The United States is the only country where people have such ready access to hundreds of millions of firearms, and we are the only country where mass shootings happen with such grim regularity.

The only solution proposed by Republicans is “more guns,” which is the modern equivalent of “No, no. Dig UP, stupid!” Proposals to arm teachers are obviously infeasible: If you don’t give teachers immunity from prosecution and lawsuits, they won’t carry and nothing changes. And if you do give them qualified immunity like cops, then you have the same problem you do with police: namely teachers blowing away mouthy eighth graders (who would be disproportionately Black or Hispanic), which is even worse than the status quo.

Anyone who actually understands the issue knows: It’s the guns, stupid. Which is why in moments of candor Republicans tell the truth: “We’re not gonna fix it.” The Biden administration admitted there’s nothing else feasible that can be accomplished given the structure in place that guarantees nothing can, or will, be done. And the truth is, they’re correct.

Republicans have no intention of doing anything because they’d get primaried if they did. And even if some Republicans agreed to try something, they’d need 60 votes to overcome the filibuster in a Senate where the system of apportionment gives Republicans a +7 advantage in elections (i.e., the Democrats would need to win the national vote by seven points every year just to keep the Senate 50–50, and win by more than 15 points over three election cycles to get to 60 votes).

So substantive federal legislation is nigh impossible, but even if it did manage to get through the House, Senate, and White House, it would have to survive a Supreme Court that has already made it clear that it is not going to allow the government to come between people and unfettered access to weapons of war. These Supreme Court rulings will stand for decades. It is unlikely that anyone reading this will be alive when (and if) the Supreme Court ever reverses itself on gun laws. Any measure that survives both the legislative process and the courts cannot conceivably be substantive enough to have an effect.

But even if you take this scenario a further order of magnitude into fantasy, there is still the reality that there are 400 million unregistered guns in this country, and 20 million of them are AR-15s. That’s more guns than are possessed by the Defense Department, Department of Homeland Security, and police departments combined. That’s more than all the guns manufactured by the U.S. in World War II. Any attempt to register this staggering array of weapons, much less take them away, is an impossible task with owners who are largely unwilling to comply.

At the same time, red states have gone all in on weaponizing our society. We’re seeing permitless concealed carry, open carry, allowances to carry in more places, ending gun-free zones, laws banning red-flag laws; all the while, the number of guns in circulation keeps rising by the millions, year after year after year. Republicans keep insisting that the solution to gun violence is more guns, and they’re going to keep going with that theory no matter what the results are.

This is a one-way ratchet: The path going forward has only one possible outcome. More guns, less regulation of their lethality, and less government authority over who owns them. Predicting the results is tragically easy: more lethality, more frequent mass shootings, more deaths per mass shooting, and more piles of dead children.

For those advocating gun control, you can be civil if it makes you feel morally superior. You can be uncivil if it makes you feel better. You’ll get the same results either way: namely, nothing. I admire those working to try to change these policies. But it is counterproductive to pretend that there is a “normal” political or legal solution: Things are only going to get worse for at least the next 20 to 30 years, if not more, based on the stacked political system and the courts. The system is broken, and it is not fixable in any meaningful sense.

Short of a national divorce, there is nothing that can be done at this point. Mass shootings, and the accompanying piles of dead bodies, are as American as Mom and apple pie. Continuing to pretend that our current system can fix this is tantamount to accepting the status quo. This is going to upset a lot of people and make them angry. I could be wrong; I’m not a psychic. However, no one has proposed a plausible way to get meaningful gun reform through. It’s not for lack of trying either: Every effort for the past decade has failed despite public outcry after each horrific mass shooting. If there was a way, someone would have already found it. But the truth hurts when it means changing your whole worldview: that the war is lost, and your country cannot be saved from not only what it has become but what it chooses to be.
 
Last edited:
I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy, but I don't think the outlook on gun control is as rosy as this author paints it.
 
I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy, but I don't think the outlook on gun control is as rosy as this author paints it.

Ain't no guns goin' anywhere.

At worst, there might be some transient spikes in boating accidents.

The best way to guarantee something doesn't go away is for the government to declare a "war" on it.

(Just ask drugs. Or poverty.)
 
Ain't no guns goin' anywhere.

At worst, there might be some transient spikes in boating accidents.

The best way to guarantee something doesn't go away is for the government to declare a "war" on it.

(Just ask drugs. Or poverty.)
They got rid of the guns in Afghanistan didn't they?

Oh wait, they left more guns than they started with over there.
 
I love the smell of napalm in the morning cope in the early afternoon.

The New Republic admits defeat - or at least, one of its opinionators does.

"It is possible that we may lose. It is impossible that we must lose. That is the white pill." -- Michael Malice

The Grim Truth: The War on Guns Is Lost
There are more unregistered guns in this country than are possessed by the Pentagon, DHS, and police departments combined. And Republicans want more of them.
https://newrepublic.com/article/171784/grim-truth-war-guns-lost
Brynn Tannehill (10 April 2023)

[bold emphasis added - OB]

I wrote this article long before the latest mass shooting that just happened, this time in Louisville, Kentucky, because we all know the pattern, and it never changes. There’s a mass shooting and dead innocents, often children. Angry calls for Republicans to do something, and nothing gets done. The incident fades from the 24-hour news cycle, and we resume the waiting game for the next one. It’s Sisyphus with a boulder that rolls downhill and crushes him over and over for eternity.

That’s something that people who support gun control measures need to understand: The war is lost. There is no conceivable way for things to change for the better within the next 20 to 30 years, short of a national divorce. There is no way to change hearts and minds of Republicans or the courts. There is no way to change who is in office in most states. There is no way to replace who sits on the courts quickly or change conservative disdain for stare decisis.

In reality, mass shootings will only become more and more common over the next few years as Republicans have decided that the only solution to gun violence is adding as many guns as possible to the mix.

At the state level, gerrymandering ensures that red states will never put in place elected representatives who would pass gun control. With the primary system as it is, there is zero chance that Republican primaries in these states would suddenly start producing candidates who would support limiting access to guns, much less taking away assault rifles.

In blue states, they already know that there is no hope that the courts will uphold the laws they pass. The Supreme Court effectively overturned the California law that limited magazine size, after ruling in 2022 that states can do little to prevent anyone from buying a gun in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen. The conservative Fifth Circuit, based in New Orleans, ruled in 2023 that the Second Amendment prevents the government from taking guns from people under restraining orders for committing domestic violence. Nor is the government allowed to prevent them from buying guns.

Some Republicans still want to pretend that they’re engaging with the subject seriously: blaming mental health issues, video games, lack of prayer in schools, and transgender people for mass shootings. But this is simply a distraction: Other countries have all those things, but they don’t have mass shootings. The United States is the only country where people have such ready access to hundreds of millions of firearms, and we are the only country where mass shootings happen with such grim regularity.

The only solution proposed by Republicans is “more guns,” which is the modern equivalent of “No, no. Dig UP, stupid!” Proposals to arm teachers are obviously infeasible: If you don’t give teachers immunity from prosecution and lawsuits, they won’t carry and nothing changes. And if you do give them qualified immunity like cops, then you have the same problem you do with police: namely teachers blowing away mouthy eighth graders (who would be disproportionately Black or Hispanic), which is even worse than the status quo.

Anyone who actually understands the issue knows: It’s the guns, stupid. Which is why in moments of candor Republicans tell the truth: “We’re not gonna fix it.” The Biden administration admitted there’s nothing else feasible that can be accomplished given the structure in place that guarantees nothing can, or will, be done. And the truth is, they’re correct.

Republicans have no intention of doing anything because they’d get primaried if they did. And even if some Republicans agreed to try something, they’d need 60 votes to overcome the filibuster in a Senate where the system of apportionment gives Republicans a +7 advantage in elections (i.e., the Democrats would need to win the national vote by seven points every year just to keep the Senate 50–50, and win by more than 15 points over three election cycles to get to 60 votes).

So substantive federal legislation is nigh impossible, but even if it did manage to get through the House, Senate, and White House, it would have to survive a Supreme Court that has already made it clear that it is not going to allow the government to come between people and unfettered access to weapons of war. These Supreme Court rulings will stand for decades. It is unlikely that anyone reading this will be alive when (and if) the Supreme Court ever reverses itself on gun laws. Any measure that survives both the legislative process and the courts cannot conceivably be substantive enough to have an effect.

But even if you take this scenario a further order of magnitude into fantasy, there is still the reality that there are 400 million unregistered guns in this country, and 20 million of them are AR-15s. That’s more guns than are possessed by the Defense Department, Department of Homeland Security, and police departments combined. That’s more than all the guns manufactured by the U.S. in World War II. Any attempt to register this staggering array of weapons, much less take them away, is an impossible task with owners who are largely unwilling to comply.

At the same time, red states have gone all in on weaponizing our society. We’re seeing permitless concealed carry, open carry, allowances to carry in more places, ending gun-free zones, laws banning red-flag laws; all the while, the number of guns in circulation keeps rising by the millions, year after year after year. Republicans keep insisting that the solution to gun violence is more guns, and they’re going to keep going with that theory no matter what the results are.

This is a one-way ratchet: The path going forward has only one possible outcome. More guns, less regulation of their lethality, and less government authority over who owns them. Predicting the results is tragically easy: more lethality, more frequent mass shootings, more deaths per mass shooting, and more piles of dead children.

For those advocating gun control, you can be civil if it makes you feel morally superior. You can be uncivil if it makes you feel better. You’ll get the same results either way: namely, nothing. I admire those working to try to change these policies. But it is counterproductive to pretend that there is a “normal” political or legal solution: Things are only going to get worse for at least the next 20 to 30 years, if not more, based on the stacked political system and the courts. The system is broken, and it is not fixable in any meaningful sense.

Short of a national divorce, there is nothing that can be done at this point. Mass shootings, and the accompanying piles of dead bodies, are as American as Mom and apple pie. Continuing to pretend that our current system can fix this is tantamount to accepting the status quo. This is going to upset a lot of people and make them angry. I could be wrong; I’m not a psychic. However, no one has proposed a plausible way to get meaningful gun reform through. It’s not for lack of trying either: Every effort for the past decade has failed despite public outcry after each horrific mass shooting. If there was a way, someone would have already found it. But the truth hurts when it means changing your whole worldview: that the war is lost, and your country cannot be saved from not only what it has become but what it chooses to be.

One of the deep fakes of the left is pretending U.S. is the worst country in the world when in absolute numbers that's Brazil and per capita the U.S. isn't even in the top 10.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country

Countries with the Highest Rates of Violent Gun Death (Homicides) per 100k residents in 2019
El Salvador — 36.78
Venezuela — 33.27
Guatemala — 29.06
Colombia — 26.36
Brazil — 21.93
Bahamas — 21.52
Honduras — 20.15
U.S. Virgin Islands — 19.40
Puerto Rico — 18.14
Mexico — 16.41
.
.
.
Gangs are much less of an issue in the United States, yet it is second only to Brazil on the list in total gun deaths. Many people understandably assume the high number of gun deaths in the U.S. is due to mass shootings, which receive frequent attention from the media. In truth, mass shootings account for only a small percentage of gun deaths in the United States. Rather, nearly two-thirds (63%) of gun deaths in the US in 2019 were suicides.

Suicide is by far the leading cause of gun deaths in the U.S. which means mental illness is the main source of gun deaths in the U.S. and yet lefts think Republicans talking about mental health in relation to gun violence is a "distraction."
 
They got rid of the guns in Afghanistan didn't they?

Oh wait, they left more guns than they started with over there.

nDlcgtC.jpg
 
Anyone who actually understands the issue knows: It’s the guns, stupid.

Following that logic, a stabbing incident would be the fault of the knife.
... 9-11 was the fault of the airplanes.
... the deaths at the Alfred P. Murrah building were the fault of fertilizer and diesel fuel.

One wonders why we bother apprehending people and trying them in court at all.
 
Well hey look at the bright side. We won on guns but lost on everything else. When it all desecnds into chaos, we get to live and the unarmed liberals will die.
 
I don't agree
The author leaves out one important piece of information.
The regime change in the USA happened during the coup of 2020. They blatantly stole the election and got away with it because they had Soros backed judges and DA's already in place. Without a real insurrection (revolution) there is legally nothing we can do. It happened again in 2022 and once again, their judges and DA's had their backs. The only thing that did happen was that we managed to gain control of the House.....barely. Make no mistake, this will not happen again. They are already getting set to finish taking full control in 2024 and there is NOTHING we can do about it. All we did by taking the house was postpone the inevitable by 2 years. They have already shown their agenda and are working night and day to make sure that in 2024, we will NEVER have a say in how this country is run EVER again.
They will change our elections and eventually do away with them all together because Rush was right, they do not believe in democracy or elections and are utterly disgusted that they even have to go through the process of stealing our elections. How dare we have a say in anything.
They will ban the guns and magazines. They will hold manufacturers liable and put them out of business except for the ones they buy from. They will make ammo unaffordable and scarce just as gas will be in just 2 more years. As soon as they take full control, no more paper money. This is how they will control our purchases. We already know they are working on this right now as you read this. They are already setting up SCOTUS to get rid of the conservatives if anyone has been paying attention at all.
In 2024, this country is going full woke fascist and there will be absolutely nothing we can legally do to stop it.
The cheat is already in.
The elections are already decided.
We already lost in 2020 and we let them get away with it.
Sorry to be the bearer of truth but reality is what it is.
 
I don't agree
The author leaves out one important piece of information.
The regime change in the USA happened during the coup of 2020. They blatantly stole the election and got away with it because they had Soros backed judges and DA's already in place. Without a real insurrection (revolution) there is legally nothing we can do. It happened again in 2022 and once again, their judges and DA's had their backs. The only thing that did happen was that we managed to gain control of the House.....barely. Make no mistake, this will not happen again. They are already getting set to finish taking full control in 2024 and there is NOTHING we can do about it. All we did by taking the house was postpone the inevitable by 2 years. They have already shown their agenda and are working night and day to make sure that in 2024, we will NEVER have a say in how this country is run EVER again.
They will change our elections and eventually do away with them all together because Rush was right, they do not believe in democracy or elections and are utterly disgusted that they even have to go through the process of stealing our elections. How dare we have a say in anything.
They will ban the guns and magazines. They will hold manufacturers liable and put them out of business except for the ones they buy from. They will make ammo unaffordable and scarce just as gas will be in just 2 more years. As soon as they take full control, no more paper money. This is how they will control our purchases. We already know they are working on this right now as you read this. They are already setting up SCOTUS to get rid of the conservatives if anyone has been paying attention at all.
In 2024, this country is going full woke fascist and there will be absolutely nothing we can legally do to stop it.
The cheat is already in.
The elections are already decided.
We already lost in 2020 and we let them get away with it.
Sorry to be the bearer of truth but reality is what it is.

You’re missing a piece of information. The Courts are NOT banning guns and have done the opposite. The Bruen case stated that there has to be a historic reference to a law back in the 17 and 1800’s banning or restricting guns and there isn’t. The lower courts have the most part enforced the Supreme Court rulings. The 2020 election rulings are NOT gun cases. I don’t know why they didn’t look at the 2020 election but I do know that they have been ruling in favor of gun rights.
 
Last edited:
Maybe fixing up the mental health crisis in America could be a starting point.


Modern problem solvers are lazy and have to have turn around in short time frames. Much easier to bandaid problems than deep dive into systemic changes.
Too difficult and hard to fix and they aren't really interested anyhow because of a number of factors.
 
You’re missing a piece of information. The Courts are NOT banning guns and have done the opposite. The Bruen case stated that there has to be a historic reference to a law back in the 17 and 1800’s banning or restricting guns and there isn’t. The lower courts have the most part enforced the Supreme Court rulings. The 2020 election rulings are NOT gun cases. I don’t know why they didn’t look at the 2020 election but I do know that they have been ruling in favor of gun rights.

NO, I haven't missed anything at all. Read what I wrote again. Doesn't matter what the courts are doing now because it is all about to change. They are already setting up Clarence Thomas and they haven't even stolen the next election yet....lol. Who do you think is going to get to pick the next SCOTUS judges? Once that happens, say goodbye to the 1st and 2nd amendment. If you think that this isn't going to play out exactly as I stated, you are only lying to yourself. The Democrats have SUCCESSFULLY used our own justice system against us so that there is NO legal recourse for us. The regime change and coup is already done and over. Winning the house only postponed this for 2 years. The Supreme court is next. Enjoy the next year and a half because after that, we are going full woke fascist.
 
Back
Top