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The Matrix

Di you know what the Matrix was really about?

  • Total voters
    45
The movie is symbolic of the forces acting upon us that few comprehend or are even remotely aware of. I don't think the majority of forum members fully grasp it. But a full grasp isn't necessary to have a successful Revolution. Many of us are learning as we go...sort of filling in the blanks. Our intuitions are generally leading us in the right direction.
 
V was way more to the point than The Matrix. The implications of control in The Matrix were a little too disconnected for most people to see any corrolation between reality and the movie. V for Vendetta on the other hand, beat the idea of oppressive government into our heads with a baseball bat, but I think too many people again missed the point of the movie.

Fun Fact: Hugo Weaving played both V in V for Vendetta, and Mr. Smith in The Matrix series...
 
"For seven, long years Sophia Stewart has been fighting in the courts to prove that her story, "the Third Eye" was ripped off by the producers of the Matrix and those who made the Terminator films. Is she telling the truth? And why haven't we heard her story before?

One reason you may not have heard of her case is that, if she wins, it will rock Hollywood and the entertainment establishment and the publishing industry to their foundations. It will also provide an inspiring picture of Black intellectual potential. It will clearly illustrate our abilities to create for, not just perform before, the cameras like puppets.

Stewart claims that her story, "The Third Eye," told from front to back was ripped off to tell the story of the Terminator series. The same tale, told from back to front, she alleges, was stolen to become the Matrix franchise. The two sagas are at the heart of modern day Hollywood's spectacular financial success.

Stewart says that she was telling the story of the Second Coming of Christ to a modern audience. Ms. Stewart, a veteran Hollywood writer who hails from New York, and looks very much like the lady cast as the Oracle in the Matrix, said she was trying to reach the youth of today who're being reared in a sterile, technological environment, and expose them to the vibrant teachings of the Bible.

Ms. Stewart is said to have provided a list of similarities between her story and the films in quesiton, as well as documented proof, suported by the FBI and witnesses, that she sent it to the companies being charged who then appropriated her ideas wholesale. Based on everything that has been reported, so far, the other side has not really mounted any substantive defense.

The latest delays in this epic, seven year case have been occasioned by charges of conflicts of interest involving the judge and some of Stewart's own defense team. One has to wonder if the vast power and influence of Time Warner/AOL has not intimidated media outlets, many of which are owned outright by the media giant. At any rate the Black community, thanks to the net, is beginning to rally around her, and give her a serious hearing. Check out her story for yourself and let us know what you think. Her website is SophiaOracle.com "
 
I was unimpressed with The Matrix. While parts 2 and 3 grew steadily worse, the one thing that remained constant among the films was this idea that there was some "big picture" that they always talked around but never directly talked about. It would be like remaking Titanic, but never actually showing the boat. No, there wasn't anything about The Matrix that I didn't understand... I have read various interpretations of the movie and different peoples' opinions of why it was amazing, but I still came away from watching it just thinking to myself that I really couldn't believe that people were this blown away by such a trite piece of cinema.
 
Am I really the only person here who wasn't able to sit through it?

I only watched ~half of "V", too.

I was able to watch all of "Brave New World", though.

AND -- a couple weeks ago, I watched all of Star Wars, except the last episode (going by storyline, not timeline of production) because I disliked the one before it so much.
 
You could sit through star wars but not the Matrix?

Once you add in the second and third movies it becomes a deep enough canvas you can project any personal belief system onto it that you want to.

I actually enjoyed the Animatrix a lot. I would recommend it over the three main movies.
 
Kludge said:
Am I really the only person here who wasn't able to sit through it?

I only watched ~half of "V", too.

I was able to watch all of "Brave New World", though.

AND -- a couple weeks ago, I watched all of Star Wars, except the last episode (going by storyline, not timeline of production) because I disliked the one before it so much.
Click to expand...

Wow, I would give them another go, V and the Matrix series were amazing. Read a few adaptaions 1st and go in looking for symbolism. Or vice versa.
 
...
What the Wachowskis did was to ask Ken Wilber and Cornel West to do the director's commentary on all 3 films. The following dialogue was recorded right before Ken flew to LA to meet with Larry and Cornel and do the recorded commentary. Ken and Cornel recorded 15 hours of commentary, which has been edited down to 6 hours to fit the 3 films, and the boxed set with all 3 films—and 6 hours of Ken and Cornel's commentary—will be released in October.

In the following dialogue, for the first time ever, we are lucky enough to hear Larry publicly comment on this situation. As he explains, the movies were in many ways designed not to give answers, but to introduce questions. What does it mean to be human? What is reality? Who is in control? Does God exist? and so on. If he was to explain what he thought the movies meant, he would be providing people with another concept of reality to either accept or reject—either way, the open space created by the question would vanish.

The Matrix injected mainstream culture with a straight shot of the surreal, where fact and fiction and truth and appearance are not grounded in a single pre-given "reality," because reality is simply what appears to be real. In a dream, the dream is real—until you wake up. In the Matrix, the Matrix is real—until you wake up. But what if you never woke up? It's questions like that that Larry wished to inspire, and he certainly succeeded.

As Ken points out, the first movie is fairly easy to grok: everything in the Matrix is bad, everything outside of the Matrix is good. Everyone inside the Matrix is trapped, everyone outside the Matrix is free, and so on. But twenty minutes into part 2, Reloaded, and the audience discovers that the Oracle is a machine program, at which point most people go: um, what?

What had begun as a simple good guy/bad guy movie had just become a complex piece of literature, with different levels of interpretation and a very sophisticated model of reality. Ken suggests that it's not until the last twenty minutes of part 3, Revolutions, that the key to the trilogy is revealed: although—and perhaps because—Neo is physically blind, he sees the machines as luminous, golden light—not quite how the "bad guys" are seen in most movies. And yet Neo is unmistakable in what he says to Trinity: "If you could see them as I see them, they are all made of Light...." Indeed, the machines represent Spirit, but Spirit as alienated and therefore attacking....

Thus, as Ken summarizes a more integral interpretation (that takes into account what is revealed in all three films), Zion represents body (filmed in blue tint), the Matrix represents mind (green tint), and the machines—this is the kicker revealed in part 3—represent spirit (golden tint). For those of you keeping track, this is indeed quite similar to the Great Nest of Being as taught by the world's wisdom traditions, a spectrum of being and consciousness reaching from body to mind to spirit.

Borrowing from the wisdom of Christian mysticism, "The flames of Hell are but God's love denied," and so an alienated and dissociated spirit manifests as an army of machines bent on destroying humankind. It is only in the integration of body, mind, and spirit that all three are redeemed and peace returns.
...
Click to expand...

http://in.integralinstitute.org/talk.aspx?id=205
 
I am not all that crazy about Ken Wilber's interpretation. He gets a lot "right", I think, but then interjects his own 'rainbows and unicorns' beliefs (which have no basis in the movies).

Ironically, if you listen to not only all three of the philosopher commentaries of the Matrix trilogy (that of Ken Wilber and Cornel West), but also the film critic commentaries, you will notice that as the movies progress from 1 to 3 the philosophers become more dogmatic in the ideas they are spouting (the very thing they dislike about Morpheus in film 1). But the critics become more open minded about what they are seeing and what they didn't see the first time they saw the movie.

The philosophers become fixed in a tiny little bubble as to why the Matrix saga is "good", while the critics become more open as to why the saga is more than meets the eye. I agree with the critics though that if you are not looking for meaning and symbolism the Matrix movies are ok, but lack in so many areas (mainly acting). However, just like all great literature, if you get stuck in what makes you feel or not feel, you will miss the point. Feelings are based on what we already know. 'Smart art' gives us something new.
 
Yeah I totally got the Matrix. I don't really compare it to 'V' they were so different.

Considering that most of my "political' Youtube's start with "Take the Red Pill Production", I understand that it is not about the future, it's about the present.

I agree that 'V' was a lot more direct, but I wouldn't say one or the other was better at making it's point, it was just different.

If you can plant a seed and then guide someone to reaching the conclusion that you want them to on their own, it probably is better than coming right out and telling them. The question is, do people still have the capability of thinking on their own?
 
Original_Intent said:
Yeah I totally got the Matrix. I don't really compare it to 'V' they were so different.

Considering that most of my "political' Youtube's start with "Take the Red Pill Production", I understand that it is not about the future, it's about the present.

I agree that 'V' was a lot more direct, but I wouldn't say one or the other was better at making it's point, it was just different.

If you can plant a seed and then guide someone to reaching the conclusion that you want them to on their own, it probably is better than coming right out and telling them. The question is, do people still have the capability of thinking on their own?
Click to expand...

??

The truth is what it is. It never changes. It can never be corrupted.
It doesn't appear this way because we seem to only have the perspective of personality in which to experience this Truth. There is no seed, there is no guide. Once you begin to question anything, you are on the path of questioning everything.

In the Matrix, Morpheus tells Neo to view the Oracle as a "Guide" instead of an all-powerful seer ("The great and powerful Oracle, we meet at last." - Smith). "She can help you find the path," Morpheus says. The thing about Neo though, is that he doesn't believe what anybody says. Not Morpheus, the Oracle, Smith, or Cypher. The one exception is Trinity. So Neo has this serious questioning doubt about himself, the world, and the existing structures of power. It is this unquenching doubt that allows Neo the insight to reject the choice presented to him and come to the full realization of the Truth (enlightenment). This is why the Oracle "believed" in Neo.

This is also why no one can be told what the Matrix is.


So when you say "guide someone to reaching the conclusion that you want them to on their own" you are acting in concert with the Machines and their current paradigm of control. You are simply "recycling the garbage" as Ken Wilber put it. You are not allowing them to reach their own conclusion.

It's a hard trap to avoid, especially when you believe you have the Truth. ;)

we need spiritual Libertarianism too!
 
Andrew-Austin said:
Sorry guys, I'm absolutely certain The MAtRiX was about Marxism.

Not only have I heard a Marxist sociology professor explain the undertones, there is this analysis as well which does not managed to fudge too many points: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1408419/posts
Click to expand...

lol and I've heard a Christian professor explain the christian undertones

The move is open enough so that you can define it however you wish if that is your prerogative.
 
Kraig said:
lol and I've heard a Christian professor explain the christian undertones

The move is open enough so that you can define it however you wish if that is your prerogative.
Click to expand...

I think the Marxist-Hegelian undertones were more blatant and clear. I mean come on, machines leaching off of and using humans as batteries.

The Wachowski brothers are not Christians. One of them is a member of the Democratic Socialists of America party, the other a writer who outlined a philosophy of cultural terrorism.
 
Last edited:
ForLiberty-RonPaul said:
??

The truth is what it is. It never changes. It can never be corrupted.
It doesn't appear this way because we seem to only have the perspective of personality in which to experience this Truth. There is no seed, there is no guide. Once you begin to question anything, you are on the path of questioning everything.

In the Matrix, Morpheus tells Neo to view the Oracle as a "Guide" instead of an all-powerful seer ("The great and powerful Oracle, we meet at last." - Smith). "She can help you find the path," Morpheus says. The thing about Neo though, is that he doesn't believe what anybody says. Not Morpheus, the Oracle, Smith, or Cypher. The one exception is Trinity. So Neo has this serious questioning doubt about himself, the world, and the existing structures of power. It is this unquenching doubt that allows Neo the insight to reject the choice presented to him and come to the full realization of the Truth (enlightenment). This is why the Oracle "believed" in Neo.

This is also why no one can be told what the Matrix is.


So when you say "guide someone to reaching the conclusion that you want them to on their own" you are acting in concert with the Machines and their current paradigm of control. You are simply "recycling the garbage" as Ken Wilber put it. You are not allowing them to reach their own conclusion.

It's a hard trap to avoid, especially when you believe you have the Truth. ;)

we need spiritual Libertarianism too!
Click to expand...

Just like when the Oracle told him to "never mind about the vase" before he broke it - and then said that the thing that really would blow his mind was "If she ahd never said that, would he have broken it in the first place?"

Guide is maybe not the right word. But a still valid point is would Neo have ever really done what he did without the (direction, guidance, interference, fill in the blank) of the Oracle?

So I do not mean guide to MY truth. I just mean guide to WAKING UP from the dream.
 
We need more Liberty movies like The Matric, V for Vendetta, etc...

You guys MUST check out the film 2081. It is going to be released in 2009. I hope someone makes an Atlas Shrugged movie or some movie of any of Ayn Rand's books. The Film industry is a great way to convert people to liberty.
 
Original_Intent said:
Just like when the Oracle told him to "never mind about the vase" before he broke it - and then said that the thing that really would blow his mind was "If she ahd never said that, would he have broken it in the first place?"

Guide is maybe not the right word. But a still valid point is would Neo have ever really done what he did without the (direction, guidance, interference, fill in the blank) of the Oracle?

So I do not mean guide to MY truth. I just mean guide to WAKING UP from the dream.
Click to expand...

it's an interesting question. Does one need a guide to wake up or is he capable on his own?
 
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