Stupidity is perhaps stronger and more dangerous than you thought

[Jeremy]

Not just ignorance, stupidity. I recently "lost" a series of arguments. I "lost" it because my "opponent" declared himself the winner while laughing, yelling, insulting and bringing some people he knew in on it. And this is not somebody who has his own political philosophy, so it's not like it was an argument that was based on opinion.... I was discussing facts, these are some of the things he had said:

- "When Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus and went to war, it was perfectly fine... in fact it was good" (which led to far more absurd statements - )
- "America should go to war as much as possible to get things done."
- "States can't just secede, the Constitution says how to secede so, the southerners should have followed it" (riiiight....) (the real reason why he brought up the Constitution is because I was using it the entire time while arguing. I used John Locke when debating secession so he called me a "f------ moron".
- "I hate George Bush." later... "What George Bush did was OK, I just don't like his personality"
- "I think we should get out of Iraq" later..."spreading democracy makes everything better. this is why the US should go to war"
- "Thomas Jefferson just plagiarized John Locke so you're an idiot for liking him."
- "Calvin Coolidge caused the Depression"
- "Not all criminals should have a trial. You're such an idiot."
- Then somebody else jumped in and said "yah, you're so stupid. The Constitution doesn't need to be followed all the time... like during a war."
- "Every single president has broken a law, so it's OK for presidents to break laws which is why Lincoln is not a bad president."
- "What if a terrorist said he seceded from the country, I guess he's off the hook."
- "Bill Clinton didn't lie about anything."
- "Seceding is treason and they should get the death penalty."
- "The founding fathers would probably hang you."


Yep, he did say that. (I did not exaggerate anything... in fact, I made it sound a lot better... you should have heard it). I take the stance of the founders and they would hang me. However, in reality... I didn't take any stance. I was simply putting out facts yet somehow I'm wrong. He swore at me most of the time. He didn't make one valid point. I wasn't even debating opinion... just using facts. This individual considers himself a "liberal" because "that means freedom" (lol... look at what he said though). I know this person is clueless... however he thinks is a very smart person. He insults people daily as his friends laugh with him.

And I "lost". I was called a stupid moron and was laughed at. Everybody else was clueless and said I was "destroyed" and "got owned"... this is probably because he was yelling, laughing, and declared himself the winner. Yup, I am the stupid one.

 

[pinkmandy]

You should invite him to the John McNeocon forums. He'd probably be very happy there and we could have a lot of fun.

 

[berrybunches]

Reminds of my sisters friend, a college graduate 4.0 with honors saying things like

"choosing brands at the grocery store is a major cuase if stress for poeple, there should only be one brand per item"

or

"A North American Union would be good becuase it woudl make travel easier"
(yeah, I guess if you were the fortunate one to own the "one brand" of everything and coudl afford it)

or

"people need t o be controlled"

or

"the illegal aliens deserved to be here more than us"

Reminds me of Hitler: "What luck for rulers that men don't think."
Hopefully these people don't make it to the polls.

Things like this are very depressing

 

[berrybunches]

And you should ask him to come over here and prove how "smart" he is.

 

[Jeremy]

You should invite him to the John McNeocon forums. He'd probably be very happy there and we could have a lot of fun.

He doesn't care about anything other than "winning" arguments and humiliating me. I could easily print him out a couple hundred pages of common sense and logic from hundreds of sources... he'd still call me an "f------ moron" because he's suppose to be "always right."

He is also extremely irritating and continuously makes sexual jokes.

Oh, by the way... he once said that homosexuals should be killed. Yet he says he's a "liberal" in the way that it doesn't actually mean... which means... ya... what?. In other words he can't be taken seriously. Yet I "got owned". Numerous people told me that I got destroyed. This is what I'm talking about.

Reminds of my sisters friend, a college graduate 4.0 with honors saying things like

Wow... as a matter of fact... this individual has went to all the "top classes" and thinks he's extremely intelligent which is why I'm "mush stupider than him and don't know anything about this". Elitists. Stupid ones at that.

When I tell him I've been heavily involved with politics for months now, so it's in fact me who knows what I'm talking about... he insults me somehow on that and everyone else praises him again.

 

[berrybunches]

He doesn't care about anything other than "winning" arguments and humiliating me. I could easily print him out a couple hundred pages of common sense and logic from hundreds of sources... he'd still call me an "f------ moron" because he's suppose to be "always right."

He is also extremely irritating and continuously makes sexual jokes.

Oh, by the way... he once said that homosexuals should be killed. Yet he says he's a "liberal" in the way that it doesn't actually mean... which means... ya... what?. In other words he can't be taken seriously. Yet I "got owned". Numerous people told me that I got destroyed. This is what I'm talking about.

Please tell me this person is still in high school

 

[crazyfacedjenkins]

Not just ignorance, stupidity. I recently "lost" a series of arguments. I "lost" it because my "opponent" declared himself the winner while laughing, yelling, insulting and bringing some people he knew in on it. And this is not somebody who has his own political philosophy, so it's not like it was an argument that was based on opinion.... I was discussing facts, these are some of the things he had said:

- "When Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus and went to war, it was perfectly fine... in fact it was good" (which led to far more absurd statements - )
- "America should go to war as much as possible to get things done."
- "States can't just secede, the Constitution says how to secede so, the southerners should have followed it" (riiiight....) (the real reason why he brought up the Constitution is because I was using it the entire time while arguing. I used John Locke when debating secession so he called me a "f------ moron".
- "I hate George Bush." later... "What George Bush did was OK, I just don't like his personality"
- "I think we should get out of Iraq" later..."spreading democracy makes everything better. this is why the US should go to war"
- "Thomas Jefferson just plagiarized John Locke so you're an idiot for liking him."
- "Calvin Coolidge caused the Depression"
- "Not all criminals should have a trial. You're such an idiot."
- Then somebody else jumped in and said "yah, you're so stupid. The Constitution doesn't need to be followed all the time... like during a war."
- "Every single president has broken a law, so it's OK for presidents to break laws which is why Lincoln is not a bad president."
- "What if a terrorist said he seceded from the country, I guess he's off the hook."
- "Bill Clinton didn't lie about anything."
- "Seceding is treason and they should get the death penalty."
- "The founding fathers would probably hang you."


Yep, he did say that. (I did not exaggerate anything... in fact, I made it sound a lot better... you should have heard it). I take the stance of the founders and they would hang me. However, in reality... I didn't take any stance. I was simply putting out facts yet somehow I'm wrong. He swore at me most of the time. He didn't make one valid point. I wasn't even debating opinion... just using facts. This individual considers himself a "liberal" because "that means freedom" (lol... look at what he said though). I know this person is clueless... however he thinks is a very smart person. He insults people daily as his friends laugh with him.

And I "lost". I was called a stupid moron and was laughed at. Everybody else was clueless and said I was "destroyed" and "got owned"... this is probably because he was yelling, laughing, and declared himself the winner. Yup, I am the stupid one.

With people like that you should just point out the contradictions in their statements. Also, if they like war so much, call them out on it don't let them be a chicken-hawk. If they haven't served in the military, which most of these people haven't, call up a recruiter with your friend's information and get the recruiter to start bugging the prick. If they don't join, kick him in the fucking balls. If they are female, kick her in the fucking balls.

 

[Jeremy]

With people like that you should just point out the contradictions in their statements. Also, if they like war so much, call them out on it don't let them be a chicken-hawk. If they haven't served in the military, which most of these people haven't, call up a recruiter with your friend's information and get the recruiter to start bugging the prick. If they don't join, keep him in the fucking balls. If they are female, keep her in the fucking balls.

Trust me, I have pointed out the contradictions numerous times. But I'm the one who doesn't know what I'm talking about, remember?

Please tell me this person is still in high school

Yes, but he is graduating in a month. Close enough to college level. He's taken a college history class as well... this is basically a good example of why school doesn't really do a good job at educating people.

 

[sophocles07]

"Thomas Jefferson just plagiarized John Locke so you're an idiot for liking him."

^Point at which the speaker would have received a healthy portion of knuckle sandwiches.

"What if a terrorist said he seceded from the country, I guess he's off the hook."

What the fuck does this even mean?

"The founding fathers would probably hang you."

hahahaha

Oh my god


Where did you find this guy?

Please tell me this person is still in high school

Yea, I got a "hallway area"-before-morning-classes vibe from this report.

 

[Jeremy]

Where did you find this guy?

It's not that hard to find somebody like this. I suppose there are only two requirements. =o

1. They are the average person that knows nothing about these things.
2. They think they know everything and they are "always right". Everybody else is "wrong".

 

[Anti Federalist]

This is why there must be a seperation.

I (we) can't live with people like this person is going to grow up to be.

 

[freelance]

Not just ignorance, stupidity. I recently "lost" a series of arguments. I "lost" it because my "opponent" declared himself the winner while laughing, yelling, insulting and bringing some people he knew in on it. And this is not somebody who has his own political philosophy, so it's not like it was an argument that was based on opinion.... I was discussing facts, these are some of the things he had said:

- "When Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus and went to war, it was perfectly fine... in fact it was good" (which led to far more absurd statements - )
- "America should go to war as much as possible to get things done."
- "States can't just secede, the Constitution says how to secede so, the southerners should have followed it" (riiiight....) (the real reason why he brought up the Constitution is because I was using it the entire time while arguing. I used John Locke when debating secession so he called me a "f------ moron".
- "I hate George Bush." later... "What George Bush did was OK, I just don't like his personality"
- "I think we should get out of Iraq" later..."spreading democracy makes everything better. this is why the US should go to war"
- "Thomas Jefferson just plagiarized John Locke so you're an idiot for liking him."
- "Calvin Coolidge caused the Depression"
- "Not all criminals should have a trial. You're such an idiot."
- Then somebody else jumped in and said "yah, you're so stupid. The Constitution doesn't need to be followed all the time... like during a war."
- "Every single president has broken a law, so it's OK for presidents to break laws which is why Lincoln is not a bad president."
- "What if a terrorist said he seceded from the country, I guess he's off the hook."
- "Bill Clinton didn't lie about anything."
- "Seceding is treason and they should get the death penalty."
- "The founding fathers would probably hang you."


Yep, he did say that. (I did not exaggerate anything... in fact, I made it sound a lot better... you should have heard it). I take the stance of the founders and they would hang me. However, in reality... I didn't take any stance. I was simply putting out facts yet somehow I'm wrong. He swore at me most of the time. He didn't make one valid point. I wasn't even debating opinion... just using facts. This individual considers himself a "liberal" because "that means freedom" (lol... look at what he said though). I know this person is clueless... however he thinks is a very smart person. He insults people daily as his friends laugh with him.

And I "lost". I was called a stupid moron and was laughed at. Everybody else was clueless and said I was "destroyed" and "got owned"... this is probably because he was yelling, laughing, and declared himself the winner. Yup, I am the stupid one.

OMG! We're toast!

 

[Jeremy]

"What if a terrorist said he seceded from the country, I guess he's off the hook."

What the fuck does this even mean?

We were discussing people who provided terrorists with materials. I said they obviously need a trial. He said they don't deserve a trial because the Constitution doesn't apply to criminals. I said in America people are innocent until proven guilty. So where can he go now? He had to go back to the other argument we had about secession... and came up with the above statement... don't ask! =o

 

[acptulsa]

stormcommander, it does no good to hang around with terrorists. We appreciate you trying to infiltrate them and all, but these people are much, much too scary to be anything but terrorists, and you need to get the hell out of that situation!

 

[Nate SY]

I know how you feel man. The other day I actually got into an argument with someone because he said "Socialism isn't really bad, I mean everyone getting the same of everything would be great!" I argued with him for about 30 minutes and only ended up getting people to side with me when I said...

Me "So would you join a National Socialist party?"
Him "I'd love to join it!" (with a defiant grin on his face)
Me "Do you even know what Nazi stands for?"
Him "No, what does that even have to do with anything?"
Me "Nazi is short for National Socialist party..."
Him "Ah... shit." (grin slowly fades)

Basically the only way to bring stupid people to your side is to make the other stupid person look like a nazi/communist... I almost felt bad giving him such a low blow, but honest debate wasn't getting anywhere.

 

[sophocles07]

It's not that hard to find somebody like this. I suppose there are only two requirements. =o

1. They are the average person that knows nothing about these things.
2. They think they know everything and they are "always right". Everybody else is "wrong".

Actually, you’re right. You could go to the local supermarket, restaurant, or university and probably find people just as completely out-of-their-mind fucking stupid as the guy you’ve quoted.

I’ve had similar experiences (though I usually stop “debating” after a point).

We were discussing people who provided terrorists with materials. I said they obviously need a trial. He said they don't deserve a trial because the Constitution doesn't apply to criminals. I said in America people are innocent until proven guilty. So where can he go now? He had to go back to the other argument we had about secession... and came up with the above statement... don't ask! =o

[Admin- removed text]

Basically the only way to bring stupid people to your side is to make the other stupid person look like a nazi/communist... I almost felt bad giving him such a low blow, but honest debate wasn't getting anywhere.

Yea, I always have a feeling of slipping into a Giuliani-brand appeal to emotionalism when I have to depart from level-headed rationality in a debate. It works, but you feel the pangs of a Darth Vader thing coming on.

 

[mdh]

stupidity are more stronger!?!?

 

[Jeremy]

stupidity are more stronger!?!?

I was actually just about to edit that when I saw this

 

[thx1149]

- "When Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus and went to war, it was perfectly fine... in fact it was good" (which led to far more absurd statements - )
- "America should go to war as much as possible to get things done."
- "States can't just secede, the Constitution says how to secede so, the southerners should have followed it" (riiiight....) (the real reason why he brought up the Constitution is because I was using it the entire time while arguing. I used John Locke when debating secession so he called me a "f------ moron".
- "I hate George Bush." later... "What George Bush did was OK, I just don't like his personality"
- "I think we should get out of Iraq" later..."spreading democracy makes everything better. this is why the US should go to war"
- "Thomas Jefferson just plagiarized John Locke so you're an idiot for liking him."
- "Calvin Coolidge caused the Depression"
- "Not all criminals should have a trial. You're such an idiot."
- Then somebody else jumped in and said "yah, you're so stupid. The Constitution doesn't need to be followed all the time... like during a war."
- "Every single president has broken a law, so it's OK for presidents to break laws which is why Lincoln is not a bad president."
- "What if a terrorist said he seceded from the country, I guess he's off the hook."
- "Bill Clinton didn't lie about anything."
- "Seceding is treason and they should get the death penalty."
- "The founding fathers would probably hang you."

None of those things are stupid. It seems kind of arrogant to knock other people's views in favor of your own strong views, when you haven't even tried to understand their ideas. I'm guessing my beliefs lean more towards yours, but calling people on the other side stupid seems harsh.

I have neo-con friends. I often have disagreements with them on political matters. Their views are different, but does that make them wrong? This isn't simple stuff. Can a political idea be right or wrong, and if so how is that measured? What makes your decision to measure that more right than someone elses?

There is a core point that must be understood. It is the thing that separates all of our libertarian-like philosophies from the other sides. Libertarians and anarchists are individualists. They believe that when looking at government the individual should be the entity of the most importance. Most other philosophies of government are collectivist. They believe it is alright to sacrifice people and their liberties if it benefits the country as a whole.

There is no right or wrong here. Each side has it's pros and cons. Each side has it's reasons for believing what they believe. Now, go back and look at that list and try to pretend you believe that sacrifices can be made to benefit the group. Suddenly, things like suspending habeas corpus, or sending people into war doesn't seem as bad. Doing those things can have benefits.

Yeah, some of the things you mentioned may be absurd or silly, but ignore anything too ridiculous. For the most part I think your friends ideas are right in line with the general collectivist ideals. Most of the people in this country and even the world support those ideals on some level. We are in the minority. There is no right or wrong. The consequences of their ideals may seem horrendous to us through our eyes, but what they believe makes perfect sense through their eyes. There is nothing stupid about their beliefs. They have a different set of values.

 

[Anti Federalist]

thx1149 wrote:

There is nothing stupid about their beliefs. They have a different set of values.

Those "values", put into practice over the last century, killed a quarter of a BILLION people.

Those are values that are wrong, and I want no part of them.