Johnnybags
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Stress test leaked, bickering?
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slacker921
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original source (zero hedge was just bumping it up apparently)
Zero Hedge has consistently given info and insight that makes me think he/she is an insider with high level access and knowledge in the banking industry... Turner Radio leaked the "vets might be terrorists" document days before anyone else. The odds that this leak is accurate is pretty high, but it will never be released to the public with anywhere near this level of clarity.
Zero Hedge has consistently given info and insight that makes me think he/she is an insider with high level access and knowledge in the banking industry... Turner Radio leaked the "vets might be terrorists" document days before anyone else. The odds that this leak is accurate is pretty high, but it will never be released to the public with anywhere near this level of clarity.
Johnnybags
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It explains alot
The banks certainly cannot keep paying dividends on the loans back to the gubmint so you will see the gubmint convert to common stock. It will force mergers, new mgt and may even close some over time but one thing is for sure. The taxpayers is screwed. The common stock will allow their ratios to improve. Its all about kicking the can down the road. We as taxpayers are paying full salaries to the employees of ghost banks. They make more than most public employees and if not for you and I would in the unemployment line collecting a few hundred a week vs thousand. Regional banks will get killed because they cannot afford a huge FDIC Insurance increase, it will virtually wipe out all their earnings. So no we are stealing from healthy banks shareholders as well.
The banks certainly cannot keep paying dividends on the loans back to the gubmint so you will see the gubmint convert to common stock. It will force mergers, new mgt and may even close some over time but one thing is for sure. The taxpayers is screwed. The common stock will allow their ratios to improve. Its all about kicking the can down the road. We as taxpayers are paying full salaries to the employees of ghost banks. They make more than most public employees and if not for you and I would in the unemployment line collecting a few hundred a week vs thousand. Regional banks will get killed because they cannot afford a huge FDIC Insurance increase, it will virtually wipe out all their earnings. So no we are stealing from healthy banks shareholders as well.
They said the sell off is due to the government taking tarp money back from smaller banks, and telling them they'll buy their preffered shares (or something like that). Basically back door nationalization.. there was another reason... but I'm leaving for work....
I'm sure this doesn't help though... I'm about to pull all my money!
Cowlesy
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Johnnybags
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I am not saying its true but
One would have to be an idiot not to think the Treasury knows whats in the test. Of course they probably have not finished putting lipstick on it but they know the results.
Denninger:
Treasury: Caught Lying Again
Last night Hal Turner (who has a reputation that is best described as heavily-adorned with Reynolds Wrap) published this:
The Turner Radio Network has obtained "stress test" results for the top 19 Banks in the USA.
....
1) Of the top nineteen (19) banks in the nation, sixteen (16) are already technically insolvent.
2) Of the 16 banks that are already technically insolvent, not even one can withstand any disruption of cash flow at all or any further deterioration in non-paying loans.
3) If any two of the 16 insolvent banks go under, they will totally wipe out all remaining FDIC insurance funding.
4) Of the top 19 banks in the nation, the top five (5) largest banks are under capitalized so dangerously, there is serious doubt about their ability to continue as ongoing businesses.
He then goes on to list things that we know to be factual, including derivatives exposure (mostly in interest-rate swaps and similar.)
This appears to have led to Treasury issuing the following statement this morning:
The U.S. Treasury Department has not yet received the results of "stress tests'' on the health of the nation's 19 top banks, spokesman Andrew Williams said Monday, after a blog said it had obtained the test results and some U.S. bank shares moved lower.
That's a lie.
How do we know its a lie?
Because of this from April 10th:
April 10 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. Federal Reserve has told Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Citigroup Inc. and other banks to keep mum on the results of “stress tests” that will gauge their ability to weather the recession, people familiar with the matter said.
The Fed wants to ensure that the report cards don’t leak during earnings conference calls scheduled for this month. Such a scenario might push stock prices lower for banks perceived as weak and interfere with the government’s plan to release the results in an orderly fashion later this month.
How can you be ordered not to release something you don't have?
Since that was published on the 10th of April, we therefore know that the results exist and Treasury, the banks involved and The Fed have them, as The Fed was concerned that some banks might try to use them (perhaps in a misleading fashion) during their first quarter conference calls and earnings releases.
Sorry guys, but whether Hal Turner has the real results or not is no longer material. What's material is the claim that Treasury doesn't have them, since they told the banks on the 10th not to release them, and you can't release what you don't have.
The problem with lying is that eventually you forget your previous lies and thus get caught when you contradict yourself.
My response to Treasury's claim is best expressed thus:
STOP LYING TIMMY; THE MARKET IS REACTING VERY, VERY BADLY TO THIS OBVIOUS AND TRANSPARENT LOAD OF CRAP YOU ARE TRYING TO FOIST OFF ON IT THIS MORNING.
One would have to be an idiot not to think the Treasury knows whats in the test. Of course they probably have not finished putting lipstick on it but they know the results.
Denninger:
Treasury: Caught Lying Again
Last night Hal Turner (who has a reputation that is best described as heavily-adorned with Reynolds Wrap) published this:
The Turner Radio Network has obtained "stress test" results for the top 19 Banks in the USA.
....
1) Of the top nineteen (19) banks in the nation, sixteen (16) are already technically insolvent.
2) Of the 16 banks that are already technically insolvent, not even one can withstand any disruption of cash flow at all or any further deterioration in non-paying loans.
3) If any two of the 16 insolvent banks go under, they will totally wipe out all remaining FDIC insurance funding.
4) Of the top 19 banks in the nation, the top five (5) largest banks are under capitalized so dangerously, there is serious doubt about their ability to continue as ongoing businesses.
He then goes on to list things that we know to be factual, including derivatives exposure (mostly in interest-rate swaps and similar.)
This appears to have led to Treasury issuing the following statement this morning:
The U.S. Treasury Department has not yet received the results of "stress tests'' on the health of the nation's 19 top banks, spokesman Andrew Williams said Monday, after a blog said it had obtained the test results and some U.S. bank shares moved lower.
That's a lie.
How do we know its a lie?
Because of this from April 10th:
April 10 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. Federal Reserve has told Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Citigroup Inc. and other banks to keep mum on the results of “stress tests” that will gauge their ability to weather the recession, people familiar with the matter said.
The Fed wants to ensure that the report cards don’t leak during earnings conference calls scheduled for this month. Such a scenario might push stock prices lower for banks perceived as weak and interfere with the government’s plan to release the results in an orderly fashion later this month.
How can you be ordered not to release something you don't have?
Since that was published on the 10th of April, we therefore know that the results exist and Treasury, the banks involved and The Fed have them, as The Fed was concerned that some banks might try to use them (perhaps in a misleading fashion) during their first quarter conference calls and earnings releases.
Sorry guys, but whether Hal Turner has the real results or not is no longer material. What's material is the claim that Treasury doesn't have them, since they told the banks on the 10th not to release them, and you can't release what you don't have.
The problem with lying is that eventually you forget your previous lies and thus get caught when you contradict yourself.
My response to Treasury's claim is best expressed thus:
STOP LYING TIMMY; THE MARKET IS REACTING VERY, VERY BADLY TO THIS OBVIOUS AND TRANSPARENT LOAD OF CRAP YOU ARE TRYING TO FOIST OFF ON IT THIS MORNING.
Last edited:
acptulsa
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I don't for a second think you'd have to be an idiot not to think the Treasury knows. But someone does. And someone is, yes, feverishly trying lipstick on the pig a dozen different ways.
Who knows if this is the real thing leaked or not. But you do know the real thing is at least as ugly. Look at what they've been up to.
Johnnybags
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You cannot order someone not to release
what they do not have. The Treasury is obviously lying but it does not mean Turner is correct. Since the selloff started in Europe I suspect they know as well.
what they do not have. The Treasury is obviously lying but it does not mean Turner is correct. Since the selloff started in Europe I suspect they know as well.
we've been manipulated this far... i would'nt put it past them to purposely leak this as misinformation in order to crush people shorting banks some more.
first they are going to release it... then no... then maybe... then yes... then no. who the heck is running the show?
first they are going to release it... then no... then maybe... then yes... then no. who the heck is running the show?
Cowlesy
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Probably some foreigners messing with Hal Turner to try and move the market.
Everyone was thinkign the market would head south on Monday during Friday's close, so why not pitch some garbage info out there to juice up the move a bit?
Everyone was thinkign the market would head south on Monday during Friday's close, so why not pitch some garbage info out there to juice up the move a bit?
acptulsa
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This government of the corporations, by the corporations and for the corporations needs to perish from the earth.
C,
You might want to read this,
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1892401,00.html
Do they have their article all off base? Sure sounds like they have the results based on this 7 hour old article before the flap this am.
A google news search will reveal more articles giving some credence that the tests are known.
I wonder if Time is now going to change their article?
You might want to read this,
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1892401,00.html
Do they have their article all off base? Sure sounds like they have the results based on this 7 hour old article before the flap this am.
A google news search will reveal more articles giving some credence that the tests are known.
I wonder if Time is now going to change their article?
Johnnybags
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Waiting for Hal to be arrested
or charged with something. I am sure they'll find some obscure statute if they think his report caused the panic. At any rate the Treasury will have to report the test soon and if it is opaque, noone will believe it anyway. If you plan on converting to the preferred to common its because its technically insolvent or close enough to. That move alone will tell all.
or charged with something. I am sure they'll find some obscure statute if they think his report caused the panic. At any rate the Treasury will have to report the test soon and if it is opaque, noone will believe it anyway. If you plan on converting to the preferred to common its because its technically insolvent or close enough to. That move alone will tell all.
Bruno
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Hearing more about this right now covered by Fox. "Taxpayers would be taking on more risk if loans converted"
Rahm says, "They White House does not like bank nationalization..."
That seems to be the same B.S. line Bush used. "I don't like it, but what else could we do?"
Time, in partner with CNN, that is the biggest crock of sh!t article! LOL
If the banks were in as good as shape as they say they are then
1. Return the money.
2. Reinstate mark to market.
3. Forget about the uptick rule.
Exactly.
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