Should We Stop Sharing Ideas On This Forum?

[Eli]

Open question to all: Should we stop sharing our ideas and projects for promoting ron paul on this forum?

I've been looking through the last month of threads on this forum and I've made a few observations and come to the conclusion that we have what is the essential equivalent of a bury brigade here.

Observation 1:
A group of people here are scared of what the media might think about the grassroots efforts. The group seems to be growing and forgetting about what this campaign was founded on. They seem to be flooding every idea and thread with rhetoric of what boils down to "YOU'LL HURT RON PAUL!"
Just What I've Read Over The Past Month

• Don't put up signs
• Don't hand out flyers
• Don't vote for him in online polls
• Don't say stuff about him on other forums/youtubes
• Don't do mass donation events
• Don't email news places and tv shows about him.
• Don't put his stories on Digg.
• Don't put up comments on blog posts about him.
• I've even heard don't vote for him in straw polls that are put on by organizations that aren't in direct agreement with ron paul's views. That includes straw polls put on by the republican party.

Observation 2:
This is a more recent turn. These same group of people are trying to sabotage and destroy events and ideas because, as they claim, the media might twist them to sound bad on Ron Paul. Are we forgetting that the media is against us? Have we forgotten that if it wasn't for these efforts Ron Paul wouldn't even be still in the race? Have we completely forgotten what this grassroots was founded on? I'm afraid so.

Observation 3:
Even though theres more members here theres lower turn out for assisting each other in ideas. Just as a single example, even though theres tons from just the last month alone, this forum by itself could of dominated the family research council's straw poll. Yet, with the tireless efforts of a few naysayers (who don't seem to require sleep) we fell short and even lost to huckabee.

Observation 4:
We performed much much better when we were completely decentralized and unorganized. Everyone was doing their part and it didn't matter what everyone else thought. Now when people have an idea, instead of just doing it they consult the forum, get ripped on and attacked by a bunch of pessimists and end up ditching the idea.

Observation 5:
We've resorted to attacking people based on their political beliefs. Yes the media has always painted us as conspiracy theorists nutcases and fringe, and they always will. Even if we completely demolish the idea they'll just call us something else. So why do we need to attack and alienate these groups that got this campaign where it is. I'm not a 911 truther, dibold machine conspirator, white supremacist. jew conspiracy preacher. Yet who are they that make them any less important than myself? They're ideas and beliefs are just as relevant as mine. Yet we push them away and attack them and say they're hurting ron paul because the media will pick one out of a crowd of 2,000 and paint them as a typical supporter. I don't comprehend why we can't embrace everyone of every belief into this campaign and say fuck you to the media. No matter how careful we are the media will always find something and someone that doesn't fit, so why give the middle finger to people. I'd say it should go to the media instead.

So if I'm correct in my observations and the trend continues ask yourself next time you want to post your ideas if it'll do more harm than good. More than likely, you'll get very little support in comparison to bringing it to the meetup groups, myspace, youtube and other places, yet you'll end up with a brigade of people trying to sabotage and destroy the idea. So once again the question is open...Should we continue pushing the forward in this hateful direction?

btw. I just got a new shirt this week that says "I AM FRINGE" I wear it proudly and people keep stopping me asking what it means and I get to talk to them about ron paul and I have a near 100% conversion rate. What does your I AM NORMAL tshirt do for Ron Paul?

 

[DeadheadForPaul]

I think it's always a good idea to test out an idea before implementing it. I've thrown out some ideas that have gotten no response or shot down, and afterwards, I realized that they were lame ideas or needed work

Just because people criticize or shoot down ideas, does not mean that we dislike the individual proposing said idea. He/she may even have another idea which rocks our world

see: Swords reaching a compromise and now havin 99.9% of the board behind him

 

[Kregener]

Thanks for your thoughts Eli.

I think posting your ideas is a good thing. It gave me a chance to voice my repulsion to a Ron Paul/Che Guevara intermingling. Disgusting idea.

 

[ronpaulfan]

Observation 4:
We performed much much better when we were completely decentralized and unorganized. Everyone was doing their part and it didn't matter what everyone else thought. Now when people have an idea, instead of just doing it they consult the forum, get ripped on and attacked by a bunch of pessimists and end up ditching the idea.

Very good point.

 

[American]

I agree completely, I think if we all just use some common sense we will be just fine. Spreading the Ron Paul message is always a good thing, I dont care what anyone says. Hand out slim jims, give out DVD's show youtoob videos etc.......

I think we are doing a great job, there will always be weird situations with anything but to make rules regarding anomalies makes no sense.

 

[mavtek]

This topic is completely unproductive! This will hurt Ron Paul!

Kidding....

 

[scrosnoe]

Keep your eyes straight ahead

and make the others run to keep up/ good post / and well to remember not to be diverted by naysayers while incorporating wisdom when found!

 

[Brutus]

I've spoken about mass donations having a possible bad side effect. That isn't intended to say don't do them (I'm participating in two of them), just to be aware of the possible bad side effect and work against it. Anything can be abused. Just be smart. Be aware.

 

[terlinguatx]

...

 

[NewEnd]

there have always been pessimists and naysayers here.

It is still a very decentralized campaign, just bigger

 

[JoshLowry]

If anything we should try to curb our criticism when it isn't necessary. Sharing ideas and information is the glue of an internet community.

If you can't say nothing nice, don't say nothing at all. No one is forcing you to participate.

If they want to spread the word, who are you to stop a volunteer?

 

[TVMH]

Observation 1:
A group of people here are scared of what the media might think about the grassroots efforts. The group seems to be growing and forgetting about what this campaign was founded on. They seem to be flooding every idea and thread with rhetoric of what boils down to "YOU'LL HURT RON PAUL!"

We've all got to get over our fear of being made fun of.

We are standing on the side of truth, and we should never be ashamed of that. Some of us may be a bit dorky at times, but so what? LOTS of people out there are dorky at times (myself included).

Observation 2:
This is a more recent turn. These same group of people are trying to sabotage and destroy events and ideas because, as they claim, the media might twist them to sound bad on Ron Paul. Are we forgetting that the media is against us? Have we forgotten that if it wasn't for these efforts Ron Paul wouldn't even be still in the race? Have we completely forgotten what this grassroots was founded on? I'm afraid so.

It is virtually impossible to rid the campaign of belligerent supporters, especially those of the provocateur persuasion. The best we can hope to do is contain them by LOUDLY and PUBLICLY ostracizing them, if the situation warrants such a response.

Observations 3 & 4

See comment on Observation #1.

Observation 5:
We've resorted to attacking people based on their political beliefs. Yes the media has always painted us as conspiracy theorists nutcases and fringe, and they always will. Even if we completely demolish the idea they'll just call us something else. So why do we need to attack and alienate these groups that got this campaign where it is. I'm not a 911 truther, dibold machine conspirator, white supremacist. jew conspiracy preacher. Yet who are they that make them any less important than myself? They're ideas and beliefs are just as relevant as mine. Yet we push them away and attack them and say they're hurting ron paul because the media will pick one out of a crowd of 2,000 and paint them as a typical supporter. I don't comprehend why we can't embrace everyone of every belief into this campaign and say fuck you to the media. No matter how careful we are the media will always find something and someone that doesn't fit, so why give the middle finger to people. I'd say it should go to the media instead.

So if I'm correct in my observations and the trend continues ask yourself next time you want to post your ideas if it'll do more harm than good. More than likely, you'll get very little support in comparison to bringing it to the meetup groups, myspace, youtube and other places, yet you'll end up with a brigade of people trying to sabotage and destroy the idea. So once again the question is open...Should we continue pushing the forward in this hateful direction?

btw. I just got a new shirt this week that says "I AM FRINGE" I wear it proudly and people keep stopping me asking what it means and I get to talk to them about ron paul and I have a near 100% conversion rate. What does your I AM NORMAL tshirt do for Ron Paul?

I suggest that if any of us do not have anything constructive to add to the conversation, including appropriately identifying possible negative outcomes in the most respectful manner, then we should keep our damned mouths shut.

 

[klamath]

Welcome to democrasy. The only place you will get 100% agreement is in a totalitarian government where everyone is scared to utter a word against the official position.

 

[madcat033]

Open question to all: Should we stop sharing our ideas and projects for promoting ron paul on this forum?

No.

Observation 1:
A group of people here are scared of what the media might think about the grassroots efforts. The group seems to be growing and forgetting about what this campaign was founded on. They seem to be flooding every idea and thread with rhetoric of what boils down to "YOU'LL HURT RON PAUL!"
Just What I've Read Over The Past Month

• Don't put up signs
• Don't hand out flyers
• Don't vote for him in online polls
• Don't say stuff about him on other forums/youtubes
• Don't do mass donation events
• Don't email news places and tv shows about him.
• Don't put his stories on Digg.
• Don't put up comments on blog posts about him.
• I've even heard don't vote for him in straw polls that are put on by organizations that aren't in direct agreement with ron paul's views. That includes straw polls put on by the republican party.

Okay, I don't know anyone who said not to put up signs, flyers, et cetera. It's hard to evaluate these without a case by case basis.

But then again, if something is legitimately going to hurt Ron Paul, then don't do it! It's simple. You shouldn't shoot down every idea because of it. But if something is actually stupid, or if you have a legit concern, you should voice it. What's the problem?

Observation 2:
This is a more recent turn. These same group of people are trying to sabotage and destroy events and ideas because, as they claim, the media might twist them to sound bad on Ron Paul. Are we forgetting that the media is against us? Have we forgotten that if it wasn't for these efforts Ron Paul wouldn't even be still in the race? Have we completely forgotten what this grassroots was founded on? I'm afraid so.

Hey, just because we live by the grassroots, doesn't mean we should die by the grassroots as well. Your statement about what the grassroots is founded on is meaningless. That has NO RELEVANCE. Just because we are responsible for him still being in the race, doesn't mean we should do things we KNOW will harm his campaign. It's simple.

You make the stupidest justification I've ever heard. Just because we have done a lot for him, means we can do whatever we want regardless of whether it will harm his campaign or not. Don't you want this man to get elected or what?

No one is trying to sabotage events. We're trying to get this fucking man elected. Jesus.

Observation 3:
Even though theres more members here theres lower turn out for assisting each other in ideas. Just as a single example, even though theres tons from just the last month alone, this forum by itself could of dominated the family research council's straw poll. Yet, with the tireless efforts of a few naysayers (who don't seem to require sleep) we fell short and even lost to huckabee.

Missed this one. Is that the poll that required paying? I'm not going to pay to vote in an online poll. It's not worth it. Why are you so wo rried about losing to huckabee in a fucking online poll? Everyone already knows we own the internet. Don't lose sleep over it. Elections are held in real life. You know, the place out there with the sun and grass and... stuff.

Observation 4:
We performed much much better when we were completely decentralized and unorganized. Everyone was doing their part and it didn't matter what everyone else thought. Now when people have an idea, instead of just doing it they consult the forum, get ripped on and attacked by a bunch of pessimists and end up ditching the idea.

Example? I haven't seen this. We've had a lot of GREAT ideas promoted on the forum. A lot of ideas TOOK OFF on the forum. Like the philly rally, and the nov. 5th thing, and newspaper ads, et cetera. I don't know what you're talking about.

Observation 5:
We've resorted to attacking people based on their political beliefs. Yes the media has always painted us as conspiracy theorists nutcases and fringe, and they always will. Even if we completely demolish the idea they'll just call us something else. So why do we need to attack and alienate these groups that got this campaign where it is. I'm not a 911 truther, dibold machine conspirator, white supremacist. jew conspiracy preacher. Yet who are they that make them any less important than myself? They're ideas and beliefs are just as relevant as mine. Yet we push them away and attack them and say they're hurting ron paul because the media will pick one out of a crowd of 2,000 and paint them as a typical supporter. I don't comprehend why we can't embrace everyone of every belief into this campaign and say fuck you to the media. No matter how careful we are the media will always find something and someone that doesn't fit, so why give the middle finger to people. I'd say it should go to the media instead.

No. We don't attack people based on their beliefs. We attack people for mixing their beliefs with Ron Paul. We accept everyone, but keep your shit separate from Ron Paul. Why is that so hard to understand? One of my really good friends is a "truther" and a die hard Ron Paul supporter. He has NEVER mixed the two. It doesn't bother me AT ALL. And sometimes in private we'll have debates about it, and talk about it, but I have NEVER said anything negative to him about it or gotten mad about it. As long as you don't mix it with Ron Paul, you're A-OK!

But if someone shows up for a Ron Paul Rally wearing a 9/11 is a conspiracy shirt with a Ron Paul button? Then fuck em! That's REALLY harmful. When someone calls into a radio show and talks about Ron Paul and then mentions how 9/11 was "perpetrated by our government," then FUCK THEM. Really fuck them. Cos that is REALLY HARMFUL.

Look, on this forum our only goal is to GET RON PAUL ELECTED. Okay? I don't give a fuck about the truthers, we're not here to debate whether 9/11 was a conspiracy or not. But ANYTHING that hurts our chances of Ron Paul winning the election is bad. And like it or not, you can talk about "giving the finger" to the media all you want, but it's just exaggerated bullshit. That costs us voters. Okay? Your self righteous "stick it to the man" bullshit costs us voters.

So while I don't have a problem with truthers, if you cost us voters then I WILL have a problem with you. You can sit there and be all embracing and act self righteous with the truthers, and I'll go try to get Ron Paul elected.

So if I'm correct in my observations and the trend continues ask yourself next time you want to post your ideas if it'll do more harm than good. More than likely, you'll get very little support in comparison to bringing it to the meetup groups, myspace, youtube and other places, yet you'll end up with a brigade of people trying to sabotage and destroy the idea. So once again the question is open...Should we continue pushing the forward in this hateful direction?

Hateful direction? No. We should never have a hateful direction. There is nothing wrong, however, with providing legitimate criticisms when something will harm our campaign. Our goal is to get Ron Paul elected, we'd be stupid NOT to speak up when something detracts from that goal, wouldn't we?

 

[bolidew]

Observation 3:
Even though theres more members here theres lower turn out for assisting each other in ideas. Just as a single example, even though theres tons from just the last month alone, this forum by itself could of dominated the family research council's straw poll. Yet, with the tireless efforts of a few naysayers (who don't seem to require sleep) we fell short and even lost to huckabee.

Yup, we shouldn't lose that one.

 

[Thunderbolt]

If anything we should try to curb our criticism when it isn't necessary. Sharing ideas and information is the glue of an internet community.

If you can't say nothing nice, don't say nothing at all. No one is forcing you to participate.

If they want to spread the word, who are you to stop a volunteer?

If they want to throw a child off a roof with a Ron Paul t-shirt on it to get attention you better believe it is time to speak up. Now, of course that is an extreme example, but sometimes folks don't think a thing through or don't realize it might be illegal.

Posting a request for an illegal activity could get all of the admins of this forum in a great deal of legal trouble. You would be facilitating a conspiracy to commit a crime.

So, yeah, I agree we should all support each other, but to a point.

People tend to forget that what they put in writing here can and will be used against them in a court of law should they be trying to solicit others to commit a crime. Solicitation is much worse than the crime itself and this forum crosses state lines so feds can get involved.

It is not as simple as just burying your head in the sand or being a spoil sport because you don't support illegal activities.

We have had a lot of great ideas here. There have also been some terrible ones and luckily people have jumped in to stop the bad stuff.

Do not forget this forum also has a lot of people on here who want Ron Paul to go up in flames and they are TRYING to get us to do very stupid things.

Staying silent in that case is not a support to the campaign.

Grownup often have to say things that are not nice. It is no fun, but it is reality.

 

[JoshLowry]

Yes, no throwing children off a roof please.

That's why I suggested we try to curb it when it isn't necessary.

 

[TVMH]

Yes, no throwing children off a roof please.

That's why I suggested we try to curb it when it isn't necessary.

And when it is necessary, it should be done respectfully.

 

[paulitics]

I think if anything those who have constructive criticism get accused of being trolls, wet blankets, moles, neocons, liberty haters, govt ps, etc. Debate is healthy and necessary, and I don't think opinions should be stifled, even if you are in the minority. Sometimes good ideas are born out of bad ones.

There are plenty ideas that get squashed because of lack of interest. I've been wanting to do a mass NH mailout for 3 months now. Because of lack of interest, or objections about out of staters mingling with NH politics, it has been set aside. I still don't understand the logic behind this because I think the pros outweigh the cons, but I'm not going to start calling people trolls because they disagree.

If you want an idea to get big, you almost have to bring it up t this forums, for it to snowball into a big project. Persistance is key. Sometimes I get frustrated, but that is pretty normal, keep debating. Never take it personally.

 

[TexMac]

Open question to all: Should we stop sharing our ideas and projects for promoting ron paul on this forum?

People already have. The November 5 idea will go forward because it has momentum from the original creative idea, but the creators and innovators will not subject themselves to the type of massacre that happened here the past week over the V idea.

"The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it."

This forum is a tiny part of the Revolution. As the demand for conformity increases, the creativity and energy will move elsewhere. It is already happening.

There are only 2,400 active posters on this forum. That is a tiny fraction of the grassroots. A few good ideas have come from here, but its nature is changing. Innovation will happen in a less committee-like environment.