reforming the LP

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Any one want to help reform it? I believe that it could be a MAJOR party, we just need to really work at it. We are awesome on social issues and we would kick ass on economic issues, what is going on with the current LP? I think it'd be really cool if we could reform it. We could take in Libertarians, independent (Libertarian leaning), moderate anarchists, fiscally conservative Democrats and socially liberal GOP. It'd be awesome. We could be the REAL alternative, we could rally the hippie "anti war" crowd, we could get the drug legalization vote, we would appeal to both pro choice/life crowds, we would appeal to constitutionalists... damn, it's like the BEST positions, what is wrong with the leadership of this party?

We could form in every state, build strong organizations, we could utilize meet up A LOT, imagine the growth RP is getting for the LP! The LP should be more proactive and it should be more tolerant of small opposing views, like with abortion. There's some Libertarians that take issue with just "leaving it to states" so we should say.. ok "if you feel that way, attend the conventions and fight to get your views across, don't just leave or fight" does the GOP fight with each other when you have guys like Giuliani and Romney as their "top tier"? No, they defend them 100%. That's what the LP should be about. Stand by the party, stand by your guys, save it for when it comes time to vote on party platform.

I support Ron Paul 100% I just think that we need to truly think about reforming the LP, I really BELIEVE that it could become a MAJOR party, we just need to fight for it. We should fight for social liberalism, constitution, individualism, and fiscal conservatism! We should start acting like a mainstream party.

What do I have to do? Join the Boston Tea Party?

What do you think?

We should concentrate on Ron Paul, this proposal is for "down the road" so to speak

I propose we do one of four things:

*we reform the LP
*jump over to The Boston Tea Party
*Form a new party
*do nothing

 

[Hook]

I don't understand why the LP needs reforming. It seems to be fine the way it is. If you are only interested in power above principle the two major parties already have that down to a science.

 

[Hook]

If the LP just turns into "GOP Lite", then I will cancel my membership with them, as will most of the members.

 

[mtmedlin]

Yes, the LP needs reform. Their biggest problem is that they would rather be right then elected. I would take an LP light candidate immediately. In politics its not an all or nothing situation but thats what you get in the LP. We cant just eliminate the personal income tax. We have to completely repeal the IRS and if a candidate doesn't take that approach then he isn't a "true" Libertarian. It pisses me off so much because I am not a big L then I get this shit attitude from people that should be in the same boat as me. This government didn't change to the oppressive beast it is now overnight. It was made in small steps and if the LP ever wants to do anything more then get a few 100,000 votes every four years then they really need to follow their own principles of inclusion and stop putting up the "most libertarian" candidate (Badnarik) and support someone who might be 75% Libertarian but actually has a chance of winning.

 

[constituent]

yes.

i joined the libertarian party and the first thing i received in the mail was some guy griping about "i can't do it alone... blah blah blah" 'give me ya money'...

i remember watching the 2004 C-Span coverage of the Libertarian Party convention and remember all the backbiting and all that... it's a bird's eye view out in t.v. land, letcha know right now.

the combination of the two turned me off to the party completely. but with the exception of kinky friedman and ron paul, I vote (have voted) entirely libertarian.

 

[Triton]

Yes, the LP needs reform. Their biggest problem is that they would rather be right then elected.

So your solution is compromise? That got us into this situation.

 

[angelatc]

http://reformthelp.org/

 

[mdh]

Any one want to help reform it? I believe that it could be a MAJOR party, we just need to really work at it. We are awesome on social issues and we would kick ass on economic issues, what is going on with the current LP? I think it'd be really cool if we could reform it. We could take in Libertarians, independent (Libertarian leaning), moderate anarchists, fiscally conservative Democrats and socially liberal GOP. It'd be awesome. We could be the REAL alternative, we could rally the hippie "anti war" crowd, we could get the drug legalization vote, we would appeal to both pro choice/life crowds, we would appeal to constitutionalists... damn, it's like the BEST positions, what is wrong with the leadership of this party?

If you are serious about an answer to that, I'd say read over the events at various conventions and peoples' responses to them.

We could form in every state, build strong organizations, we could utilize meet up A LOT, imagine the growth RP is getting for the LP! The LP should be more proactive and it should be more tolerant of small opposing views, like with abortion. There's some Libertarians that take issue with just "leaving it to states" so we should say.. ok "if you feel that way, attend the conventions and fight to get your views across, don't just leave or fight" does the GOP fight with each other when you have guys like Giuliani and Romney as their "top tier"? No, they defend them 100%. That's what the LP should be about. Stand by the party, stand by your guys, save it for when it comes time to vote on party platform.

I support Ron Paul 100% I just think that we need to truly think about reforming the LP, I really BELIEVE that it could become a MAJOR party, we just need to fight for it. We should fight for social liberalism, constitution, individualism, and fiscal conservatism! We should start acting like a mainstream party.

Well let me ask you then - how do you feel we should reform the party? Have you been involved with the LNC or your state affiliate at all? If not, you should be! The LP is full of opportunities for bright, motivated individuals, and every bit of work you put into the party is work that benefits the cause of liberty in the US.

What do I have to do? Join the Boston Tea Party?

The Boston Tea Party formed in the wake of the Portland convention. It lasted less than a year before becoming defunct. It no longer really exists (the chairman stepped down a long while back and no one else ever stepped up). Seemed like nice enough folks, so I got on their email list - last traffic on it was like January 2007. I would imagine their membership became heavily involved in Dr. Paul's campaign and will hopefully come back home to the LP after we put Dr. Paul in the white house.

We should concentrate on Ron Paul, this proposal is for "down the road" so to speak

I think that if we can win the presidency for Ron Paul, we will *need* LP candidates for the house and senate to help him out - and furthermore, his presence and ideals will help them a great deal, too.

I propose we do one of four things:

*jump over to The Boston Tea Party
*Form a new party
*do nothing

I'd say that the LP exists and has more success already than you're going to get elsewhere. It'd taken over 30 years to build the LP to where it is now, the #3 party in the US - do you really wish to repeat that effort? I don't. The BTP is basically defunct, and would likely accept a hostile takeover, but at the same time, you'd basically be starting a new party.

With at most 3 exceptions, the LP has active state affiliates in every state. There are hundreds of thousands if not over a million registered Libertarian voters (well, maybe not right now - a lot of us are Ron Paul Republicans...). There are some 15,000 dues-paying members of the LNC alone, not counting all those who are dues-paying members of state affiliate parties and not the LNC.

I believe the Green party is #4 after us, and I'm not sure who is #5 - it's probably the Constitution Party now, but I'm not entirely sure on that.

 

[mdh]

Yes, the LP needs reform. Their biggest problem is that they would rather be right then elected. I would take an LP light candidate immediately. In politics its not an all or nothing situation but thats what you get in the LP. We cant just eliminate the personal income tax. We have to completely repeal the IRS and if a candidate doesn't take that approach then he isn't a "true" Libertarian. It pisses me off so much because I am not a big L then I get this shit attitude from people that should be in the same boat as me. This government didn't change to the oppressive beast it is now overnight. It was made in small steps and if the LP ever wants to do anything more then get a few 100,000 votes every four years then they really need to follow their own principles of inclusion and stop putting up the "most libertarian" candidate (Badnarik) and support someone who might be 75% Libertarian but actually has a chance of winning.

Have you looked at Wayne Allen Root at all? He's an LP presidential candidate. Dr. Paul is 10 times more hardcore libertarian than Mr. Root is.

Winning the presidency is tough - we're having to fight pretty darn hard for it, and Dr. Paul is running as a republican! We're not even having to deal with ballot access or debate blackout issues like LP candidates do. The LP presidential candidate is a standard bearer moreso than a winning candidate. That said, there are plenty more moderate candidates who win, and plenty of hardcore libertarian candidates who win also, in state and local elections for a variety of offices.

 

[constituent]

oh yea, and this clown eric dondero who i've been hearing/reading about.

i heard some libertarian something live broadscast he was doing recently... man.

and that guy wants to be my district rep, running against and replacing ron paul... right.

 

[mdh]

http://reformthelp.org/

I've never been a big fan. These guys miss half of the real problems, and seem to want to fix a lot of the things that aren't broken, too.

They've also managed to make a lot of enemies within the LNC... aligning with them is likely a bad idea. Forming a new caucus within the LP to push for a specific and well thought out set of goals is laudable, however.

 

[mdh]

oh yea, and this clown eric dondero who i've been hearing/reading about.

i heard some libertarian something live broadscast he was doing recently... man.

and that guy wants to be my district rep, running against and replacing ron paul... right.

Want the truth about Dondero? He doesn't have a clue to stand on.

Want proof? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mainstreamlibertarians/

This group, formerly called "Libertarians for Bush", now "Mainstream Libertarians" is supporting Giuliani. Dundering-Dondero is heavily involved. A truly disgusting bunch, this lot.

 

[Hook]

Have you looked at Wayne Allen Root at all? He's an LP presidential candidate. Dr. Paul is 10 times more hardcore libertarian than Mr. Root is.

Winning the presidency is tough - we're having to fight pretty darn hard for it, and Dr. Paul is running as a republican! We're not even having to deal with ballot access or debate blackout issues like LP candidates do. The LP presidential candidate is a standard bearer moreso than a winning candidate. That said, there are plenty more moderate candidates who win, and plenty of hardcore libertarian candidates who win also, in state and local elections for a variety of offices.

This is why Wayne will never get the LP nomination. I think the LP has sold enough of its soul already when they got rid of most of the party planks. The entire reason the LP is as successful as it is is because of its uncompromising principles. Loose that and everyone will jump ship.

 

[mdh]

This is why Wayne will never get the LP nomination.

Wayne seems like a good guy. There're a could of reasons I couldn't support him though, the biggest being that he believes the government should be allowed to determine who can and cannot own guns legally. That's a big no-no in my book. Most of his other positions are very much paletteable.

I think the LP has sold enough of its soul already when they got rid of most of the party planks. The entire reason the LP is as successful as it is is because of its uncompromising principles. Loose that and everyone will jump ship.

Your first post made it sound like you supported a more moderate LP, but now you're speaking like a purist... I'm a bit confused as to which "side you're on", as it were.

My personal take on it is to, in broad daylight and in a well publicized event that is widely discussed beforehand (no ambushes, no back room crap), consider why it is the LNC needs a "platform". Shouldn't the non-aggression axiom be enough, and allow individual candidates to determine what their platform will be for their candidacy, so that we can focus more on what works in a given area and less on what doesn't? There're places we could win on gun rights alone, but if we talk too much about legalizing weed, we're going to lose friends fast. Other places, the opposite is true. I think that to win, candidates need to be individuals with their own ideologies so long as they do not violate the non-aggression axiom. Just my take though.

 

[Man from La Mancha]

Forget this libertarian stuff or Republican or democratic or whatever, who the heck cares. Just take our best shot with Ron.

.

 

[constituent]

mdh-

i checked it out and i've have to say that 80-90% of their content is sour grapes over ron paul.

these guys are really republican neo-con partisan hacks.

 

[Hook]

Your first post made it sound like you supported a more moderate LP, but now you're speaking like a purist... I'm a bit confused as to which "side you're on", as it were.

I'm on whichever side causes the most anger and hostility in this forum.

 

[mdh]

mdh-

i checked it out and i've have to say that 80-90% of their content is sour grapes over ron paul.

these guys are really republican neo-con partisan hacks.

Yupp. Their use of the word libertarian makes me really want to violate the non-aggression axiom in their general direction!

 

[TheEvilDetector]

E. Dondero is such a galactic loser.

He used to work for RP as an aide but was fired by Ron Paul.

I believe they had a strong disagreement about the Iraqi War.

Dondero being an emotionally unstable individual who likes to hold onto grudges decides amongst other things to
create a "libertarian" group that supports R.Ghool the cross dressing fascist lisping despotic freak
and which also has a lot of RP hating messages.

Photo of Mr Dondero:

 

[constituent]

ron paul handed him his ass or something?