Rabid Paul supporters undermining campaign

[stevedasbach]

http://www.capecodtoday.com/blogs/index.php/BostonBureau/2007/10/24/mobs_turn_out_for_obama_rally

Obama Rocks at the Boston Rally

Bostonians went wild

By Libby Hughes, Boston Bureau for Cape Cod Today

<snip>

Then, a rabid Ron Paul supporter approached a young couple behind me. They were independents, willing to listen to anyone. The man who collared them was Russian. He said, "You Americans don't realize that big government leads to tyranny. I've been through socialism and communism, I know. That's where you're going, too. The government will take all your money." By the end of his tirade, he was shouting.

<snip>

This was in no way a hit piece on Paul. It was simply the observation of the reporter.

There are way too many reports like this. IMO, this type of behavior is really undermining Paul's campaign.

Whenever we encounter this type of behavior from our fellow Paul supporters, offline or online, we need to whatever we can to discourage it. You don't get a second chance to make a first impression -- let's make sure the first impressions people get from Paul supporters are positive.

 

[Ozwest]

What is your reason for starting this thread? Hasn't everyone had enough of this over-critical self-flagellation? How about something positive for a change?

 

[kylejack]

What is your reason for starting this thread? Hasn't everyone had enough of this over-critical self-flagellation? How about something positive for a change?

Show a little respect, please. Generally I agree, but show some respect.

 

[Ozwest]

Show a little respect, please. Generally I agree, but show some respect.

I'm sorry, but I see nothing disrespectful in my comment... I think my point of view is valid.

 

[kylejack]

I'm sorry, but I see nothing disrespectful in my comment... I think my point of view is valid.

I just mean, give some people a little more leeway than others. Steve is the former Executive Director and National Chair of the Libertarian Party, and we're lucky to have him here.

 

[Ozwest]

I was unaware of this. The floor is yours Sir.

 

[Bradley in DC]

Steve, as usual, you are dead right. The biggest problem with the campaign's chances of success right now, aside from very low name recognition, is the behavior of his supporters.

 

[Green Mountain Boy]

I was there at the Obama rally last night.
Overall, it went pretty well. We had at least 20 from our meetup group there with a few big banners and our signs. We handed out a lot of literature and spoke with some people who were receptive, some who were not, obviously.

The Russian guy mentioned in the article is in our group. Unfortunately he can be a little over the top at times. Oh well. You can't control everybody.

We also had a projector set up at the edge of the commons with the "A New Hope" video playing. A lot of people stopped to watch and talk with us.

 

[chiefsmurph]

Yes, this is more common than we would like to admit. We really are giving him a bad name sometimes.

 

[Original_Intent]

Maybe we should look at the cause of this kind of behavior and see if we can't educate ourselves and train ourselves to keep it in check.

I don't have any solutions, but I see the cause behind this behavior as many of us feel that the American public is asleep and that we need to be dramatic to wake them up. I am not defending the behavior I am looking for root causes and what we can do about it.


Anyone else have other ideas as to why people act that way and how can we educate/train ourselves to overcome this? And if the problem really is that we need to wake people up, what is a better way to do it than this kind of drama?

Personally, I find the best way is to give them enough information to get them asking questions so that they wake themselves up, at their own speed.

If we shove the "red pill" down their throats, they often end up just like Neo, losing his breakfast on hands and knees because he couldn't accept reality. Apologies to those of you who have not seen 'The Matrix')

 

[Ozwest]

Unlike other campaigns, Ron Paul supporters are self-motivated and passionate... There are many pitfalls associated with a grass roots campaign, and supporters should be reminded of the consequences of their actions, but inevitably, supporters are individuals and not a orchestrated event... Re- iterate the message of self control by all means, but have strategies in place to " mitigate occurences that may be harmful. Everyone loves the underdog. My 2 cents.

 

[Bradley in DC]

Maybe we should look at the cause of this kind of behavior and see if we can't educate ourselves and train ourselves to keep it in check.

I don't have any solutions, but I see the cause behind this behavior as many of us feel that the American public is asleep and that we need to be dramatic to wake them up. I am not defending the behavior I am looking for root causes and what we can do about it.


Anyone else have other ideas as to why people act that way and how can we educate/train ourselves to overcome this? And if the problem really is that we need to wake people up, what is a better way to do it than this kind of drama?

Personally, I find the best way is to give them enough information to get them asking questions so that they wake themselves up, at their own speed.

If we shove the "red pill" down their throats, they often end up just like Neo, losing his breakfast on hands and knees because he couldn't accept reality. Apologies to those of you who have not seen 'The Matrix')

Good insights here, and, using your analogy, the "red pill" must be freely chosen. Dr. Paul is against the initiation of force and fraud.

There is a perennial problem in campaigns with "newbies" with lots of energy making the same mistakes the rest of us have already made (many times over). How quickly the culture of the campaign discourages counter-productive behavior is a barometer of the likely success of the campaign.

There is a lot of anger and dissatisfaction out there, understandably. Dr. Paul is tapping into that alienation and offering us hope that we didn't otherwise have. In addition, he's drawing support from lots of quarters that are not usually on the same side. While this condition is extremely encouraging for me and the future of the republic, it exacerbates the other problems.

For these reasons, I asked to be removed as a moderator here since I didn't want to lend my name to so much of what I see on this forum and how it's hurting the campaign. For similar reasons, I expressed myself in my rant.

 

[Ozwest]

Bradley in DC, I agree with with your analysis of the current situation regarding the influx of new supporters... In my opinion, new supporters, who are deemed "unconventional" are marginalized by others and chastised or treated dismissively... The repercussions of this alienation are now becoming evident... A "guiding light" is required.

 

[Orat]

Perhaps I am being a bit uncharitable (then again, perhaps I am being cheritable, depending on how you look at it), but I think a lot of this sort of behaviour simply stems from some of these individuals being emotionally off-balance. And I mean that in the best way possible.

In the course of my travelling the country supporting Ron Paul, I have met hundreds of Ron Paul supporters. Most of them are some of the best people you will meet in your life and I lament the fact that I probably will never see most of them again. But there are undeniably a good handful of them who are somewhat disturbed and volatile. I'm not sure there is anything we can do to help that. I honestly think it is the sort of thing that may only be helped by medication. Yes, there are maybe a couple of people I've met who just needed to be talked to. But almost without exception, the ones who were really being loud and obnoxious were clearly not being so purely out of enthusiasm. They actually had a problem. And with people like this, I think the best we can do is to try and encourage them to funnel their support in ways that do not involve contact with the public.

On a related note, however, I think we should be very careful about the bullhorn marches. I've seen many people really turned off by someone screaming angrily into a bullhorn things like, "WHO YA GONNA CALL?" There is a line between enthusiasm and anger. And I've seen it crossed many times, and it is important to make sure our support for Ron is always as positive and cheerful as possible. We should never be confrontational.

Okay, that's my $0.02.

 

[angelatc]

I love the marches, hate the bullhorn.

 

[Meatwasp]

My mother came from the Czech republic and wow could she yell when something in politics didn't suit her. Ha!

 

[partypooper]

I don't have any solutions, but I see the cause behind this behavior as many of us feel that the American public is asleep and that we need to be dramatic to wake them up.

i think that there is a lot of disrespect for the ordinary "sleepy" folk over here and that can never be good. people are the way they are and the key to the success is for them to recognize that dr paul is what they always wanted but were just not aware of it. we should allow people to vote for dr paul with the least possible change in their views instead of insisting on the biggest possible change.

unnecessary discussions should be avoided and sometimes it should even be granted to the opposing side that "dr paul is not perfect" or "i disagree with him on some issues" because the goal is not to persuade people to become paul- fanatics and "open their eyes" but to think that dr paul is better than any other candidate.

a lot of irrelevant changes are demanded by the grassroots (the view that american public is supposed to change perception of fawkes or whatever being a recent example) yet the only change we really need is a change in voting behavior: we don't need other people to become passionate supporters, just to vote for dr paul. when those demands for radical changes are coupled with disrespect we are doomed to lose miserably.

 

[Ozwest]

Perhaps I am being a bit uncharitable (then again, perhaps I am being cheritable, depending on how you look at it), but I think a lot of this sort of behaviour simply stems from some of these individuals being emotionally off-balance. And I mean that in the best way possible.

In the course of my travelling the country supporting Ron Paul, I have met hundreds of Ron Paul supporters. Most of them are some of the best people you will meet in your life and I lament the fact that I probably will never see most of them again. But there are undeniably a good handful of them who are somewhat disturbed and volatile. I'm not sure there is anything we can do to help that. I honestly think it is the sort of thing that may only be helped by medication. Yes, there are maybe a couple of people I've met who just needed to be talked to. But almost without exception, the ones who were really being loud and obnoxious were clearly no being so purely out of enthusiasm. They actually had a problem. And with people like this, I think the best we can do is to try and encourage them to funnel their support in ways that do not involve contact with the public.

On a related note, however, I think we should be very careful about the bullhorn marches. I've seen many people really turned off by someone screaming angrily into a bullhorn things like, "WHO YA GONNA CALL?" There is a line between enthusiasm and anger. And I've seen it crossed many times, and it is important to make sure our support for Ron is always as positive and cheerful as possible. We should never be confrontational.

Okay, that's my $0.02.

As in any group, you will find emotionally unbalanced people (according to your defenition) . My defenition of unbalanced may be a Rudy Guilliani supporter... "Generalizations" are not constructive, no matter your "life experience".

 

[rockwell]

"This was in no way a hit piece on Paul. It was simply the observation of the reporter."

Yes, of course, the media can always be trusted to be fair and impartial and report just the facts, isn't that right?

The use of the word "rabid" connotes a diseased animal, not a "simple observation".

I for one am sick unto death of this constant prostration at the feet of the media to be fair, to listen impartially, to report with integrity- they won't, not now, not ever because they are owned by the very people who do not want anything to change. Ron Paul represents change so radical it will shift the paradigm 180 degrees.

People are upset? No kidding? I wonder why, after all everything is going swimmingly in America these days, the economy is great, we're at peace, our representatives care about the will of the people, etc.

At what point do you wake up and get good and angry and demand change? How long are we supposed to roll over while they annoint the "choices" for an electorate that barely shows up at the polls?

I was stopped yesterday in a parking lot by a 60 something, former Marine who asked me about my Ron Paul bumper sticker. We talked CALMLY, but PASSIONATELY about the situation we, as Americans and as veterans faced today. I am certain that had the reporter heard us discussing the topic we'd be "rabid" and "lunatics" because neither of us trusted the media, believed our government, trusted in the electorate- in short we were two strangers, both hard working contributing members of American society who had served our government and it's people in the defense of our nation who had come to the same conclusion, logically, rationally and reasonably, that Ron Paul is the last chance America will get before we fall over the precipice.

I'm not a doomsday guy, I have always been upbeat, hard working, optimistic, but I am also intelligent and well informed and I can see tyranny when it's slouching through the land and if other people don't- or can't, that's their problem. Criminals have gained control of the highest seats of power- that's right criminals- mass murderers who wage illegal wars and force the citizenry to pay for the outrages they commit, the tortures and rapine, the destruction of cultures and infrastructures on the flimsiest of lies and all of it perpetuated by a media that NEVER seems to utter the truth, even obliquely.

So if someone at an Obama-fest fan shout-out caused the "reporter" distress because of his "rabidity" I guess we are striking a nerve. This is the coverage of a power structure on high alert, fearful of what they can see out in the countryside, a population that has had it with the criminality and duplicity and who want their country back in the hands of responsible and honorable stewards of public trust.


*climbs down off soap box*

 

[Bradley in DC]

My mother came from the Czech republic and wow could she yell when something in politics didn't suit her. Ha!

What is suitable in a Communist country is one thing, here we're preaching respect for everyone's individual rights.