• Welcome to our new home!

    Please share any thoughts or issues here.


question for econ experts

heavenlyboy34

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2008
Messages
59,093
In G. Edward Griffin's lecture on international banking, he said that if all credit were eliminated and all debts were paid for in cash, there would be no money left in circulation. Is that still true?
 
Some contend that there is only enough money to pay the principal on the outstanding loans, and not the interest. That is because when a loan is created, they create the principal but not the interest. So where does the interest come from? Either money that was already in circulation (previously backed by gold), but once this money is gone then the wealth we once had has been taken by the bankers.


Griffin contends

"However, I practically fell out of my chair when the program repeated that old, silly argument about the Fed not creating enough money to cover the cost of interest on debt; and, therefore, the world must forever be in debt. I knew right there that the writer did not read The Creature from Jekyll Island or, if he did, he forgot my analysis of this common myth. For those who are interested in that topic, it is fund on pages 191-192 of The Creature."



Maybe somebody who has the book can elaborate?
 
Some contend that there is only enough money to pay the principal on the outstanding loans, and not the interest. That is because when a loan is created, they create the principal but not the interest. So where does the interest come from? Either money that was already in circulation (previously backed by gold), but once this money is gone then the wealth we once had has been taken by the bankers.

Griffin contends

"However, I practically fell out of my chair when the program repeated that old, silly argument about the Fed not creating enough money to cover the cost of interest on debt; and, therefore, the world must forever be in debt. I knew right there that the writer did not read The Creature from Jekyll Island or, if he did, he forgot my analysis of this common myth. For those who are interested in that topic, it is fund on pages 191-192 of The Creature."

Maybe somebody who has the book can elaborate?

I've got the book. Haven't read it yet (got so many for the movement) I know what the fed does good enough for the mean time...

Anyway, looking at what he says here... He is spot on.

Instead of me typing out two pages... basically; the money for the interest comes from the value of labor... which it totally ignores... You owe 9% on $10,000.... so you owe $10,900... but the bank only prints $10,000... The fallacy is you need to go borrow $900 from someone else to pay it back.....

i.e perpetual debt.... i.e clinically retarded nonsense.

Addressing this issue amazingly; http://freedom-school.com/money/how-an-economy-grows.pdf

Comic Book... enjoy, it really is a treasure... :D Go check that out, cus I ain't typing out 3 pages... try find the pdf if it exists?
 
In G. Edward Griffin's lecture on international banking, he said that if all credit were eliminated and all debts were paid for in cash, there would be no money left in circulation. Is that still true?
Each Dollar that in the system was borrowed into existence. It is all debt money ... that is, each Dollar is someone else's liability. So, yes ... if all debt (public and private) was reconciled, there would be no money in circulation.

Brian
 
I think it's called the compound interest paradox. With our current monetary system, we don't actually print money, we expand debt in order to expand the money supply. The continuing expansion of the money supply relies upon the expansion of debt.
 
Each Dollar that in the system was borrowed into existence. It is all debt money ... that is, each Dollar is someone else's liability. So, yes ... if all debt (public and private) was reconciled, there would be no money in circulation.

Brian

Which goes to show the complete retardedness of fiat currency.
 
Some contend that there is only enough money to pay the principal on the outstanding loans, and not the interest. That is because when a loan is created, they create the principal but not the interest. So where does the interest come from? Either money that was already in circulation (previously backed by gold), but once this money is gone then the wealth we once had has been taken by the bankers.


Griffin contends

"However, I practically fell out of my chair when the program repeated that old, silly argument about the Fed not creating enough money to cover the cost of interest on debt; and, therefore, the world must forever be in debt. I knew right there that the writer did not read The Creature from Jekyll Island or, if he did, he forgot my analysis of this common myth. For those who are interested in that topic, it is fund on pages 191-192 of The Creature."



Maybe somebody who has the book can elaborate?


Who Creates the Money to Pay the Interest? (Creature from Jekyll Island by Ed Griffin page 191-192)

One of the most perplexing questions associated with this process is, " Where does the money come from to pay the interest?" If you borrow $10,000 from a bank at 9%, you owe $10,900. But the bank only manufactures $10,000 for the loan. It would seem, therefore, that there is no way that you-- and all others with similar loans-- can possibly pay off your indebtedness. The amount of money put into circulation just isn't enough to cover the total debt, included interest. This has lead some to the conclusion that is is necessary for you to borrow the $900 for the interest, and that, in turn, leads to still more interest. The assumption is that, the more we borrow, the more we have to borrow, and that debt based fiat money is a never ending spiral leading inexorably to more and more debt.

This is a partial truth. It is true that there is not enough money created to include the interest, but it is a fallacy that the only way to pay it back is to borrow still more. The assumption fails to take into account the exchange value of labor. Let us assume that you pay back your $10,000 loan at the rate of approximately $900 per month and about $80 of that represents interest. You realize you are hard pressed to make your payments so you decide to take on a part-time job. The bank, on the other hand, is now making an $80 profit each month on your loan. Since this amount is classified as "interest", it is not extinguished as is the larger portion which is a return of the loan itself.

The decision then is made to have the bank's floors waxed once a week. You respond to the ad in the paper and are hired at $80 per month to do the job. The result is that you earn the money to pay the interest on your loan, and -- this is the point--- the money you receive is the same money which you previously had paid (to the bank). As long as you perform labor for the bank each month, the same dollars go into the bank as interest, then out the revolving door as your wages, and then back into the bank as loan repayments.

It is not necessary that you work directly for the bank. No matter where you earn the money, its origin was a bank and its ultimate destination is a bank. The loop through which it travels can be large or small, but the fact remains all interest is paid eventually by human effort. And the significance of that fact is even more startling than the assumption that not enough money is created to pay back the interest. It is that the total of this human effort ultimately is for the benefit of those who create fiat money. It is a form of modern day serfdom in which the great mass of society works as indentured servants to a ruling class of financial nobility.
 
Last edited:
That video has one fallacy in it, it said that the bank could lend out $9,000 since you deposited $1,000, that is false, it can lend out $900, and then, through the reserve system, eventually create another $9,000, but it cannot do that based on your deposit alone.

Should notify the author. :)
 
Which goes to show the complete retardedness of fiat currency.

As that video above very simply illustrates, this system exists because the end result is that the government and banks both get 'stuff' for doing nothing, while we have to work for what we want.
 
Back
Top