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Question about One of Dr. Paul's Statements...

nexalacer

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Jun 27, 2007
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The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders’ political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs.Certainly the drafters of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, both replete with references to God, would be aghast at the federal government’s hostility to religion. The establishment clause of the First Amendment was simply intended to forbid the creation of an official state church like the Church of England, not to drive religion out of public life.

from http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul148.html (emphasis mine). I'm worried about this quote because I did a quick look through the constitution and there was NO reference to God, then I looked at the DoI and only found the ONE reference to the Creator... nothing replete about it. As a candidate who is basing his campaign on the Constitution, this could be mistaken as not having much knowledge of it.
 
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Technically, the Constitution has a reference to Christianity in Article VII, but it's of no legal weight or significance.
 
Yeah, he was incorrect there. Many people add "so help me god" after the presidential oath, but thats not in the constitution either.
 
This is disconcerting because separation of church and state, while not a constitutional issue, is very important to many would be supporters. I, personally, don't give a rats ass, because I am quite sure Ron Paul does not want to spread his beliefs onto me, however, how can we re-frame this to make it not as damaging?
 
Let me also say... The Dr ain't a robot. He's not goint to get everything correct 100% of the time.

Still, 99.9999999999% is pretty dang good! ;) :D
 
For someone who is religious, there are a bunch of words that have religious connotation. For example, when he may read the word Liberty, he may directly think: Rights our creator gave us.

I think there is also a reference to the "Year of our Lord" something or other somewhere.
 
Is it possible that God or the Creator was replete in the federalist or anti-federalist papers? I have a pretty full reading list atm so I don't have time for those.... can anyone who has read them extensively comment on this?
 
Perhaps he meant to say that the writings of the founding fathers are replete with references, not the Constitution and Declaration specifically.
 
I believe he meant to say The Founders WRITINGS were replete with references to God, no the Constitution itself.
 
For every document you can show secularism, I can show one that shows Christianity.

Carry on.
 
how can we re-frame this to make it not as damaging?

I'm not sure this can be "re-framed". I disagree with RP's view on this matter. It's not the first time I've disagreed with his writings or statements, but I still support his candidacy because these are small issues that won't even register during his 8 years as president.

If it makes a difference, I'm an atheist and I'm still not to concerned about this.

RP is right on the important issues that are within presidential authority; I can overlook our philosophical differences.
 
The guy has 700 or so articles he's written over the years.

700.

No other political candidate comes close, and for good reason. Most people are a bit crazy (e.g. Rudy in a dress), and have ideas others would consider weird, so they know its in their best interest to only say something when they know they have to. RP doesn't do that, so of course he is going to have a few statements that are un-PC. Big deal.
 
No, what you showed me was a TREATY we were signing with an Islamic nation. Do you really believe they were beyond saying what the Moslem's needed to hear to get it done? The Treaty was written by Joel Barlow:

"In 1796, in Washington's second term, Barlow resolved our first hostage crisis. He was sent to Algiers as consul to help with implementation of our peace treaty with that state and to secure the release of more than 100 American seamen some of whom had been held captive by the Algerian corsairs since 1785. It required great patience and diplomatic skill on his part not to mention payment of substantial sums to local officials, but he succeeded where others had failed. He stayed on as consul for a year after the hostages departed and returned to Paris in 1797."

We even used BRIBERY to secure the release of our citizens.

The "separation of church and state" has been used like a cudgel by the Godless...to the detriment of our nation.
 
Ron Paul has never suggested the American government was CHRISTIAN. he said it was inspired by some Christian theological background such as humanism. his core argument is that the FEDERAL govt should protect the rights of individuals within the states whereupon they are infringed, but if the entire state of alabama consists of christians, and they want to make christian ideology available at a courthouse for a reminder or want to use christian teachings as a basis for law, so be it, so long as it doesn't restrict the practices of another person in any way.

same could be said if Oklahoma wanted to be a Wiccan state, or NJ consisted of a majority who wanted more Islam in their government.

he is stating that there is no clause in these documents that forceably removes religion as being a basis of state authority, that the ability for religion to be an excuse for persecution IS protected against, while being thoughtful of it in lawmaking is not. and this is true, humanism itself, which is the base paradigm behind even political correctness, is DEFINATELY judeo-christian. its a judeo-christian paradigm, mirroring the rules passed down to man in that religion. before that you could just worship a God of murder, and go on a killing rampage and be serving your God. so a total seperation of church and state means that valuable lessons learned philosophically by religious teachers cannot be used, which is absurd.

the point here is that the government protects your individual rights. the federal government is not empowered to establish a church, so it can't be an official religion, and the state governments are the ones that might want to make religious teachings involved in legislation, so long as they dont infringe on civil liberties, and represent the feeling of the majority. state religiou holidays are a PERFECT example of this.
 
The "separation of church and state" has been used like a cudgel by the Godless...to the detriment of our nation.

This is interesting. Can you explain how godless people are bringing down our nation? For example, can you list the behaviours of godless people is detrimental?
 
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