Pit Bulls, Bad or Good?

[TomKat]

Not sure if this is where it should be posted. Not "down" with the posting ettiquete. I know some people are pretty picky. Sorry in advanced.


I grew up in the north just outside of Pittsburgh hearing the horrifying tales of these dangerous and horrible dogs that are called "pit bulls" on the news for years. I had had dogs since I was born, mostly hunting dogs, labs, retrievers, and brittany spaniels, but they were kept in the house (and some outside) and they were good natured pups that just wanted to go hunting.
It wasn't until I moved to N.C. in 2000 that I met my first "pit bull". Her name was Emily, she was an actual full blooded "American Pit Bull Terrier" from New York that was on vacation here staying with a friend of mine. I was very cautious at first still believing the news' "black" (meaning bad propaganda as opposed to "White" propoganda meaning truth propaganda) propaganda that I was fed for many years.
After about five minutes, I came to the conclusion that this was just another dog. The owner was a laid back easy going stoner type and the dog followed the owner's demeanor. I took this as a fluke because "the news couldn't get it wrong!!", even though I knew that they were always wrong on the gun issue (which has been near and dear to my heart since I was first around guns, which started at age three days).
My job here had me going to vacation houses and interacting with people from all ethnicities, pay grade, and social scales of every type and their dogs. I have found that anyone in any of these scales share one property in common, they all love their dogs!
I met almost every kind of dog there is and being a dog lover I HAD to interact with them.
After about 4 years it occurred to me that the one dog that I never had to worry about were these "pit bull" dogs. I had been bit by labs #1, shitszus #2 and retrievers#3 but never had to worry about these big headed dogs. They were the nicest and most loving dogs and they only DEMANDED one thing, love or petting.
This got me wondering so I started google'ing (no startpage back then) and I found out that there is no such thing as a "pit bull" and that it was nothing but a blanket term given to 27 to 32 different dog breeds (in my opinion, to demonize a whole spectrum of dogs that may help you if there was a lack of government). The term "American Pit Bull Terrier" or "APBT" was an actual breed of dog and as I started asking questions to all of my dog loving friends I found that this was commonly known.
Now I was puzzled. Why would a whole breed (or 27 to 32 breeds depending on where you look) be demonized so much?
Some of you reading must be laughing as much as I was when I realized that my "ignorance of the news" was the whole problem.
In 2006 or 2007 I met who I call "Big Blue". He was a full blooded Blue Nose American Pit Bull Terrier, a male, a BIG boy. His labrador "brother" had to be contained on a leash but this guy had full reign of the property. He barked at me and advanced at me when I pulled in and even though at this point I never feared APBTs since my new theory, I quickly had my doubts. He barked with authority and advanced towards me. I knew this property well having taken care of it for 6 or 7 years so far so I acted like I owned it, like I normally do yet with caution, but not showing it.
As the big HUGE headed greyish dog approached me I stuck my hand out in a nonthreatening but assured manner and he walked over and sniffed it in an almost gestured "meh" manner. He sat at my feet and enjoyed the petting I was giving and we have been the best of friends since.
Years later when I decided to get another puppy, I read an ad saying "Red Nose American Pit Bull Terrier puppies: must go" I knew that I should check it out. Little did I know that I would find my newest member of our family.
I found this little tiny runt of a dog that was whining and was the color of pumpkin pie and had some splashes of white on each paw and her belly as well as her snout and chin. As I picked her up she seemed content in my arms even though her mom was not.
The "seller" told me that the mom had "ripped out an intruders lower leg tendon" when he tried to unsuccessfully break into their house and the doubts started to swarm again. I didn't want a killer dog, I just wanted one that would be loving and would warn of any danger.
I dismissed the warning thoughts as I did with northern propaganda and paid the price asked for the little bundle of red haired joy.
As she grew up I instilled in her all of the aspects that I want in a dog as well as instilling the pack aspect that dogs have. I was pack leader and she was second with the other dog (a full blooded Brittany Spaniel aged 8 years by this time) as an equal. I never let her try out her dog dominance trait and corrected her every time she tried.
Five years later and we have a great pack going on. I am obviously number one and she claims to be number two pushing the old girl to number three of which she doesn't care.
My "pit bull" experience is one of the greatest things that I have ever tried. I highly recommend it!!

 

[Natural Citizen]

There is nothing wrong with these dogs. The wrong people tend to own them is the problem. Pack structure ....

 

[Ronin Truth]

In the "Little Rascals", Petey was a pretty cool pit bull.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Dogs are dogs. What separates them is their power. Any dog might bite unexpectedly. Can the dog kill you in one bite? Can it kill a child in one bite? Something to consider.

 

[DamianTV]

There is nothing wrong with these dogs. The wrong people tend to own them is the problem. Pack structure ....

+Rep

There are NO bad dogs, only bad People.

---

Dogs are dogs. What separates them is their power. Any dog might bite unexpectedly. Can the dog kill you in one bite? Can it kill a child in one bite? Something to consider.

My dogs can kill a child in one bite. They weigh in over 150 pounds a piece. Giant Alaskan Malamutes. I've also done something terrible and taught them that "Children are Delicious" which is why they are always washing childrens faces!

Their size is something that is a real risk. Its not from just being aggressive either as they can easily knock a grown man down by being TOO friendly. They've both knocked me on my ass on a number of occasions, but their actions were definitely not malicious. I've done everything in my power to properly train and socialize my dogs. I know that the greatest risk comes from their instinct to escape and go on "adventures". I've tried to train them that "people are good" so if they encounter someone on one of their "adventures" (breed is notorious for being escape artists), that they are NOT aggressive toward them at all.

Just simple reinforcement that calm and friendly behavior is what is expected of them, whether I am present or not. I have not trained them to fight. I have not taught them to be aggressive in any way shape or form.

Yet, I've had a bunch of calls from fucking morons claiming that I am keeping WOLVES as pets, even when they are inside the fence. Animal Control has been here more than several times because of the calls made by these retards. And, Im on a first name basis with every single Animal Control officer. They havent responded to the calls in about the last three years or so as they've all met my dogs, and they've all seen their AKC papers validating that they are Malamutes and NOT WOLVES. People still call. And Animal Control just call me, "Hey, it's John, Animal Control. Do you still have those Malamutes?". "Yep." "Okay, another idiot complaining. I'll call them back and make sure they know they're not wolves." There are a lot of Hispanics around here, and they seem to agree that there is some Prejudice towards the breed because of their semblance to wolves. Its a Common Mistake. One I can actually understand the confusion. Wolves can be dangerous, and Wolves can also be both loving and loyal. But wolves are wild and do not respect humans as their Masters, even ones bred in captivity. So when films portray Wolves, they very frequently use Malamutes and dogs that look like wolves instead of putting the actors at risk with real wolves. I've met real wolves. They are to be respected, but not trifled with. In one word: Majestic But I also know that I will never be recognized as the Pack Leader by a real wolf.

But, Malamutes are one of the Top 10 most dangerous breeds. That list includes: Akitas, German Shepards, Rott Weilers, Pit Bulls, Mals, and a couple of others. Thats a list that is compiled by Human Deaths by Breed. Human Bites by Breed is quite different, and is topped off by Chihuahuas and small Terriers. Pits are on the Bite list, but Mals are not. If people were to take the time and actually train their dogs by reinforcing good behavior and correcting bad behavior, dogs in general would not be getting the bad rap that they are. The biggest problem that I experience with "bad dogs" comes from their owners rewarding their bad behavior. They often tell me that the dog is Nervous and needs to be "Soothed". That to the dog means that they should be Nervous around people and encourages even worse behavior. Its that mentality that can make ANY dog dangerous.

Some people are intentionally evil and fight dogs for sport or money. They dont give a shit how the dogs feel when they get their throats ripped out by a pack of other fighting dogs. Michael Vicks is a prime example, but damn near every community has some sort of underground dog fighting. There are also the people that do not understand. They are not inheritly evil, but are often very self centered and it is very difficult to get it through to these people that if the dog shits on the carpet and you try to soothe the dog, it is only teaching the dog that their masters expect them to shit on the carpet. Evil or just Stupid, both can be summarized as a Bad Dog Owner.

The point remains, there are no Bad Dogs, only Bad Dog Owners.

 

[phill4paul]

Pure unadulterated man killer.....

 

[Ronin Truth]

AWWW cute puppy ( with the satanic eyes of a huskie <shiver>)

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Pitbulls: Bad or Good?

I would say bad.

But then, I would say that about most dogs in general. Another caveat: I'm saying that from a landlord perspective. Unfortunately, extremely unfortunately, we live in a country and a time filled with irresponsible people. A dog with an irresponsible master = an insufferably annoying and possibly dangerous dog. Dogs are relatively stupid. Unless their owner has an IQ higher than the dog, what do you get? Bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, all day, all the time, never stops, no sense to it. Leaving their waste products all over the carpet. Tearing up the house. Also bites. Improper attacks. All of this just represents out of control behavior. This is all the owner's fault, of course. Dogs have a nature -- they are what they are. They can be trained and properly cared for and will then have highly desireable behavior, or they can be neglected and go feral or crazy in various pretty predictable ways. No use getting upset at the dog for being what he is. However, I take kind of the same attitude with people now, too. They are what they are. No use getting upset at how people are; that's just how they are.

And the reality is: put together the nature of dogs, and the nature of far too many people (especially people renting cheap housing) and the result that comes out is bad.

 

[phill4paul]

AWWW cute puppy ( with the satanic eyes of a huskie <shiver>)

Our canine selection seems to come out of the "10 deadliest breeds" checklist. At one time we had 3 American Pitties (AKC), a Malamute, A Chow mix and a German Shepard mix ( all now R.I.P. ). Never a human bite from any of them. Though I am sure there are, just as humans, individuals that are hopelessly anti-social for the most part it comes down to training. I absolutely love the Pitties. They are a wonderful breed.

 

[brushfire]

I've had a pit. She was one of the best dogs I'd ever had.

Coexisted with the cat just fine, and was very obedient and agile. She could catch sparrows from the air, leaving or returning to a near by bird feeder - never seen anything like it since. It was like she was part cat.

Around the same time there was another notorious man killer. Just watch this pit shred Johnny Carson

 

[donnay]

My aunt and uncle raise pitts and they never once had any problem with them. They even had one, just like the Little Rascal's Dog Petey but it was a girl so they named it Sue Petey.

I think there are a couple of factors that should be considered and researched before owning a dog of any breed.

A. Some of the vaccines they give them could seriously affect their brains, and something to consider.
B. How you feed it is another.

http://www.healthyhappydogs.com/VaccinationDanger/

 

[BuddyRey]

I don't think any dog breed is inherently bad or good. Having said this, I weigh about 130 lbs., so the cutoff weight for any dog I'd consider taking in as a packmate is well below half that - about 50 lbs.. I've seen too many leashed people taken for walks...nay, drags by their huge and uncontrollable muscle breeds to think my having a dog that size would be any Sunday picnic.

 

[TomKat]

Pitbulls: Bad or Good?

I would say bad.

But then, I would say that about most dogs in general. Another caveat: I'm saying that from a landlord perspective. Unfortunately, extremely unfortunately, we live in a country and a time filled with irresponsible people. A dog with an irresponsible master = an insufferably annoying and possibly dangerous dog. Dogs are relatively stupid. Unless their owner has an IQ higher than the dog, what do you get? Bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, all day, all the time, never stops, no sense to it. Leaving their waste products all over the carpet. Tearing up the house. Also bites. Improper attacks. All of this just represents out of control behavior. This is all the owner's fault, of course. Dogs have a nature -- they are what they are. They can be trained and properly cared for and will then have highly desireable behavior, or they can be neglected and go feral or crazy in various pretty predictable ways. No use getting upset at the dog for being what he is. However, I take kind of the same attitude with people now, too. They are what they are. No use getting upset at how people are; that's just how they are.

And the reality is: put together the nature of dogs, and the nature of far too many people (especially people renting cheap housing) and the result that comes out is bad.

From a landlord perspective, that is a good point. Then you have the insurance companies who will drop your coverage or make it difficult to afford if they find out you have one on your property so most landlords that allow dogs won't even consider allowing "pit-like" dogs. Although this problem plagues both renters and homeowners.

 

[angelatc]

My aunt and uncle raise pitts and they never once had any problem with them. They even had one, just like the Little Rascal's Dog Petey but it was a girl so they named it Sue Petey.

I think there are a couple of factors that should be considered and researched before owning a dog of any breed.

A. Some of the vaccines they give them could seriously affect their brains, and something to consider.
B. How you feed it is another.

http://www.healthyhappydogs.com/VaccinationDanger/

Holy fuck - now she's going after vaccines in animals too.

Never had a pit bull, never really known anybody that had one. So I don't have an opinion. My kids were on a school bus once though. Their classmate's pit bull escaped and mauled a woman who was jogging, right in front of a bus full of elementary kids. The bus driver got out and whacked it a few times with a 2 x 4 to make it let go. Hard headed beast with jaws that can exert 150 lbs of pressure.

I'm more of a hound person, I think.

 

[TomKat]

My aunt and uncle raise pitts and they never once had any problem with them. They even had one, just like the Little Rascal's Dog Petey but it was a girl so they named it Sue Petey.

I think there are a couple of factors that should be considered and researched before owning a dog of any breed.

A. Some of the vaccines they give them could seriously affect their brains, and something to consider.
B. How you feed it is another.

http://www.healthyhappydogs.com/VaccinationDanger/

Wait, you have to give vaccines to your dogs now too??? Wtf? Lol!

 

[phill4paul]

From a landlord perspective, that is a good point. Then you have the insurance companies who will drop your coverage or make it difficult to afford if they find out you have one on your property so most landlords that allow dogs won't even consider allowing "pit-like" dogs. Although this problem plagues both renters and homeowners.

Indeed, the pit bull rescue we went through has an in-depth process for new adoptions. One of the things they checked out was whether our homeowners insurance excluded the "dangerous breeds."
Funny side note. The missus orders online so UPS comes down here. We always get the same driver. Our "pack" all passed over a four year period. They were all about the same age and it was one after the other.
Every time he comes down here now he remarks how "it is not the same." He liked us and the dogs so much he carried bisquits with him and knew them by name.

 

[phill4paul]

Holy fuck - now she's going after vaccines in animals too.

Never had a pit bull, never really known anybody that had one. So I don't have an opinion. My kids were on a school bus once though. Their classmate's pit bull escaped and mauled a woman who was jogging, right in front of a bus full of elementary kids. The bus driver got out and whacked it a few times with a 2 x 4 to make it let go. Hard headed beast with jaws that can exert 150 lbs of pressure.

I'm more of a hound person, I think.

Pitties are measured at 235# of pressure. They are the fourth strongest after Mastiffs (552#), Rotties (328#), Shepards (238#). Doesn't make them more of a scary animal if they are raised right. I've known some Mastiffs. Gentle giants. Slobber too damn much for me though.

 

[tod evans]

Which breed of human is vicious?

Dogs are like people, some are smart and some are stupid, but they're all a product of their environment..

One thing most dogs excel at is pointing out bad humans.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

One thing most dogs excel at is pointing out bad humans.

There is probably a lot of truth to that. Keep in mind, however, that as Brian4Liberty mentioned, some dogs will do this "pointing out" with far more devastating consequences than others.

 

[angelatc]

Pitties are measured at 235# of pressure. They are the fourth strongest after Mastiffs (552#), Rotties (328#), Shepards (238#). Doesn't make them more of a scary animal if they are raised right. I've known some Mastiffs. Gentle giants. Slobber too damn much for me though.

Agree about the slobbery mastiffs. They really are awesome dogs though.

Everybody says that pit bulls aren't a problem if they're raised right. To me, that seems to be making a case against pit bulls, because short of licensing, we have no way of knowing if said dog will indeed be raised right.

I don't ever support breed specific legislation. But personally I think that if pit bulls do require a more sophisticated owner, then the philisophical issue is how do we keep unsophisticated owners from screwing up pit bull ownership for the rest of you?