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Nuclear Power

Jordan

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Joined
Sep 22, 2007
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Does anyone have any figures for the cost of nuclear power per unit?

I'm generally a "hell no government don't do that" kind of person, but the more I think about it, I'm pretty sure I would support 100% a "stimulus" to create enough nuclear power plants to displace all of our energy needs.

We import about 5 billion barrels of oil per year, roughly $350 billion at today's prices. If we could remove that with proper use of nuclear power, we could get rid of our current trade deficit in its entirety.
 
energy

I know what you mean. But government ruins everything it touches.

Best just to get government out entirely. Stop subsidizing oil with the armed forces, stop placing regulatory obstacles in front of alternatives, get the ATF out of the way of alcohol production, legalize hemp, etc. Then let the market decide what makes sense.
 
Wind power produces more electricity in the US today than oil-fired plants (surpassing it in 2008). Petroleum by-products fuel transportation and are used to produce thousands of other products from plastics to pharmaceuticals. I'm not sure of the numbers but conventional power plants use coal or natural gas, which are both produced domestically. Replacing these with nuclear would have a fairly small impact on oil consumption, I believe. The main issue I have with nuclear power is that it has federal accident liability protection due to the Price Anderson Act. Removing this would cause production costs to rise due to steep increases in insurance costs.
 
Apparently, from what I understand, nuclear power is only viable right now because of government subsidies.

I still think the best energy provision system would be a hybrid between off the grid and on the grid power. Each house having solar panels and/or windmills for power, and they are connected to the grid which means they feed power to houses that are also hooked to the grid. Net metering insures that people will get credit for the power their generators produce. The big power plants that provide most of our power now would be greatly alleviated and would be mainly backup power for when a house's personal generators aren't able to produce enough electricity.
 
Does anyone have any figures for the cost of nuclear power per unit?

I'm generally a "hell no government don't do that" kind of person, but the more I think about it, I'm pretty sure I would support 100% a "stimulus" to create enough nuclear power plants to displace all of our energy needs.

We import about 5 billion barrels of oil per year, roughly $350 billion at today's prices. If we could remove that with proper use of nuclear power, we could get rid of our current trade deficit in its entirety.

Only numbers anyone is going to have are costs with distorted liability. I do not endorse this site or anything but this is a nice convenient chart to start out. Your further research will either support or contradict the projected cost trends.

http://www.unenergy.org/Popup pages/Comparecosts.html

Have you ever looked at oil consumption charts? The U.S. is not oil dependent in electricity since most of it uses steam turbines. Oil dependency is almost entirely in fuel for transportation and chemicals.
 
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Oil just isn't burned in large-scale electricity generation anymore.

What is needed to get off of foreign oil is a fundamental change in the dynamics of energy used for transportation

What wind, solar, and nuclear could do is free up natural gas currently used to spin turbines for use in CNG vehicles, but this technology is in its infancy.
 
Oil just isn't burned in large-scale electricity generation anymore.

What is needed to get off of foreign oil is a fundamental change in the dynamics of energy used for transportation

What wind, solar, and nuclear could do is free up natural gas currently used to spin turbines for use in CNG vehicles, but this technology is in its infancy.

Sorry if off the main topic.

I like the idea of CNG vehicles, but only New York and California can sell new CNG vehicles. Illegal to sell them in the other 48 states. Add to that the problem of refills outside the home.
 
Sorry if off the main topic.

I like the idea of CNG vehicles, but only New York and California can sell new CNG vehicles. Illegal to sell them in the other 48 states. Add to that the problem of refills outside the home.
The regulatory problems can be solved with the stroke of the pen..

Refilling stations for CNG aren't exactly the stuff of science fiction, its just a question of the market achieving enough critical mass to make them well, marketable...

My neighbor converted an old cavalier to CNG. I am throughly impressed. What is cool is that after 4000 miles, the motor oil still looks brand new. Works well as a second vehicle...
 
no way to know

Apparently, from what I understand, nuclear power is only viable right now because of government subsidies.

I still think the best energy provision system would be a hybrid between off the grid and on the grid power. Each house having solar panels and/or windmills for power, and they are connected to the grid which means they feed power to houses that are also hooked to the grid. Net metering insures that people will get credit for the power their generators produce. The big power plants that provide most of our power now would be greatly alleviated and would be mainly backup power for when a house's personal generators aren't able to produce enough electricity.

It is impossible to know what energy technology would be most efficient because the market for energy is so hopelessly distorted by government interference.
 
If you are going to make a move from gasoline powered vehicles to electrical ones, you will have to greately increase the capacity for electrical generation. Nuclear energy is still a very expensive way to boil water and make steam (that is how you make nuclear energy- keep a nuclear reaction from getting strong enough to blow you up and use that resulting heat to boil water and turn a turbine). Then there is the question of what to do with your waste which is reactive for centuries.

And for the vehicles, where to get all the materials to make all the batteries you will need (and how to dispose of them at the end of their life).

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2010/05/102005-new-nuclear-energy-grapples-with-costs/
New Nuclear Energy Grapples With Costs

Exelon Sees Weak Market, Others Think Climate Concerns Will Propel Industry

Marianne Lavelle

for National Geographic News

Published May 20, 2010

This story is part of a special series that explores energy issues. For more, visit The Great Energy Challenge.

President Obama may be pressing for the nation to increase its supply of nuclear power, but the market is pushing in the opposite direction—at least in the view of one of the leading figures in the U.S. nuclear business.

John Rowe, chief executive of Chicago-based Exelon, operator of the nation’s largest fleet of nuclear power stations, says the economics of the electricity business have changed sharply in just the past two years, dimming the prospects for a significant number of new nuclear reactors in the United States.

Though Obama has touted nuclear as “our largest source of fuel that produces no carbon emissions,” cleanliness is not a benefit that currently shows up on the bottom line. Without congressional action to make competing fuels that emit greenhouse gases more expensive, Rowe says, fossil fuel plants are still cheaper to build. “I just don’t think nuclear has a chance in a pure marketplace without a carbon price,” Rowe said last week in Washington, D.C., in a speech hosted by Resources for the Future, a think tank focused on cost-benefit analysis in environmental policy.

While Rowe noted that some companies are still working on nuclear projects, he pointed out that they tend to be in “rate-based jurisdictions.” In other words, they are in traditionally regulated states where monopoly power companies can sometimes recoup the costs of building nuclear plants during construction through the rates they charge their customers.

Exelon, in contrast, operates only in states where deregulation has created competitive markets. In effect, it sells the power it produces into the electricity marketplace. And because electricity prices have dropped—particularly due to new, abundant supplies of natural gas—Rowe thinks that building new nuclear plants does not make economic sense now.

Renaissance Delayed

Rowe’s pessimism is a change from his view in 2007, when Exelon announced plans to build two new nuclear units in Victoria, Texas. At the time, the plan was one of a flurry of proposals that industry advocates said signaled a “nuclear renaissance” in a country that hasn’t seen construction of a new reactor in 30 years. Some of the past environmental resistance to nuclear power due to safety concerns has eased because the big reactors are capable of delivering a large amount of “baseload” power—a steady supply of electricity that doesn’t fluctuate like that produced by solar or wind—without carbon dioxide emissions. And although new nuclear plants are costly, Congress in 2008 approved $18.5 billion in federal loan guarantees for new nuclear plants. Those guarantees are seen as essential for the industry to obtain financing, especially given the risk that projects may not make their way through the lengthy approval process.

More at link.
The two new 1,100-megawatt units would provide enough power for 1.4 million people in a state where electricity demand is projected to grow 30 percent in the next 15 years. Obama, making the announcement before members of an electrical workers union, portrayed nuclear power as a jobs creator and part of the solution to climate change. “To meet our growing energy needs and prevent the worst consequences of climate change, we'll need to increase our supply of nuclear power,” he said. Compared to a similar-sized coal plant, Obama said, the Southern project would be the emissions equivalent of taking 3.5 million cars off the road.

Southern and its partners still must obtain final approval and licensing from the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission. Carrie Phillips, manager of public affairs for Southern Company’s nuclear operations, said the project is on track. “We’ve completed excavation. We put in a new transmission line, and we’re building a concrete batch plant on site,” she said. “There’s a lot going on.”

No Nuclear Bet

It’s a different story for Exelon, which last year signaled plans to delay its Texas plant and formally withdrew its application for an operating license in March. Although the company will continue to seek a federal site permit at the location, Rowe said in his remarks last week that the abundance of relatively cheap natural gas—the result of new technologies that allow for production from hard geological formations called shale—had fundamentally changed the economics. “As long as we have $4 gas and no carbon price, we’re not going to bet on a new nuclear plant,” he said.

(Related: “Plenty of Gas, but No Easy Option for U.S. Energy Challenge.”

But Rowe said Exelon still plans upgrades of its 10 existing nuclear plants in Illinois, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania, facilities that provide enough electricity for 17 million homes. In recent years, the company has increased the capacity of those plants with new turbines, generators, digital controls, and other efficiency improvements that have added the equivalent of another full nuclear plant. He said that Exelon plans to continue such upgrades. “Exelon doesn’t plan to build a new nuclear plant, but does plan to add the equivalent of [another] new nuclear plant to its existing capacity,” he said.
 
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The US still has more nuclear plants than any other country (nearly one fourth of the world total- 104 plants in the US vs a global total of 434) though as a percent of total energy generation we are not #1 but about #16. France gets 76% of their electricity from nuclear power- we are under 20%. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_by_country
 
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