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NH, MI, WY, FL, SC lose half of their delegates

LinearChaos

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Aug 9, 2007
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NH takes a big hit from GOP over Primary

By JOHN DISTASO
Senior Political Reporter
2 hours, 17 minutes ago

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New Hampshire is among five states formally sanctioned by the Republican National Committee yesterday for planning to hold its presidential primary before Feb. 5, 2008, the earliest date allowed by an RNC rule.

Although state GOP Chairman Fergus Cullen said he is unconcerned about sending 12 instead of 24 delegates to the party's national convention in Minneapolis next summer, the move marks the first time the national Republican Party has punished the state for holding fast to its first-in-the-nation tradition. Cullen, who was on yesterday's massive conference call meeting of the RNC, said the vote was 121-9 in favor of sanctioning the five states.

►Gardner willing to wait out Michigan on primary
►NH Republicans shrug off punishment
►Is NH getting a break from the DNC?

Although New Hampshire Secretary of State William Gardner has not yet set the date of the primary, RNC Chairman Mike Duncan noted that it is clear that New Hampshire will hold its primary earlier than Feb. 5. The RNC is also sanctioning Michigan, Florida, Wyoming and South Carolina, which this year also moved earlier than the Feb. 5 date. Iowa, which plans to hold Republican caucuses on Jan. 3, would not be penalized because, technically, the caucuses are not binding on convention delegates. Nevada, which plans to hold its caucuses on Jan. 19, would not be penalized for the same reason.

The rule forbidding any delegate selection contest prior to the first Tuesday in February has been on the RNC's books since being passed by the 2000 national convention. New Hampshire Republicans broke the rule in 2004 -- and was the only state to do so -- but was not sanctioned then.

According to an RNC official who spoke on the condition of anonymity, the state escaped sanctions that year because incumbent President George W. Bush ran in an uncontested primary and no other states challenged New Hampshire. The issue "wasn't raised," the official said.

Duncan was asked on a conference call with reporters yesterday whether the RNC is sanctioning New Hampshire this year only because the RNC feels it must be even-handed now that the other four states have moved up. He did not answer the question, saying only that the party's rule and action yesterday was "not meant to pit one state against another."

Yesterday's decision formalized a decision by the national party's executive committee announced by Duncan last month, which prompted harsh criticism by Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H.

Cullen said the move by the national party has been expected and will have no effect on when the New Hampshire GOP holds its primary in accordance with state law.

He said that the state's three members of the RNC, including himself, voted against the sanctions. He did not know where the other six "no" votes came from.

"We reserve the right to challenge this at a later date," said Cullen.

He said he did not speak during yesterday's meeting because "the vote was going to happen regardless of what kind of argument we were going to put up. There will be a time, after the primary, to make the case that the full delegation should be seated, but now was not that time."

Several GOP presidential candidates have said they will be sure that New Hampshire's full delegation is seated at the convention if they are the party's nominee.

Cullen said he understood why the RNC acted as it did.

"The RNC is under considerable pressure from 43 other states that feel they are complying with the rule and that was what was behind the need to do this," he said. "I'm not going to pick a fight with the RNC at this time.

Besides, he noted, the state GOP recognizes that the primary date is set by a state law, which says the primary must be held at least seven days before any "similar election." The state party, he noted, has no control over the date.

Last month, Gregg, an influential Republican on Capitol Hill, pulled out in protest as a host of a state GOP fundraiser that featured Duncan after Duncan announced that the sanctions would be enforced.

Gregg said the Republicans were acting like Democrats by trying to control the primary/caucus calendar from Washington. The Democratic National Committee has attempted to establish a calendar that allows New Hampshire, Iowa, Nevada, and South Carolina to hold contests prior to Feb. 5. But other states have rushed up, most prominently Michigan and Florida, which has prompted sanctions and a pledge by candidates not to campaign or participate in those two states.

For the national Republicans, "The best approach would have been to say nothing on this issue," Gregg said last month. "That would have been the better part of discretion by the leader of the party if he'd been thinking. It doesn't make it easier for us to win next November. It brings into play an issue that it's not necessary for us to have to deal with because the Democrats continue to be the real problem here."

RNC Chairman Duncan said yesterday, "No one wants to be in a position to penalize anyone, but our rules are self-enforcing and they give me no options" other than to enforce the rule.
 
I do believe this is a blatant move to get Giuliani elected. It's been said that he could careless about the early primary states and would instead focus on the rest of the country for the big day in February. This move effective eliminates any momentum of any candidate winning the early states since it give them half of the delegates they have earned. To me at least, whether against the law or not, this is complete fraud. Election reform is need so bad and primaries need to all be on the same day period.
 
God, another one of these threads? :rolleyes:

This rule was has been a part of the GOP's Rules since 2004, long before Dr Paul decided to run. There is no conspiracy to cut their delegates because the are leaning towards any particular candidate.

Party Rule 15(b)(1)(i) says:
No presidential primary, caucus, convention, or other meeting may be held for the purpose of voting for a presidential candidate and/or selecting delegates or alternate delegates to the national convention, prior to the first Tuesday of February in the year in which the national convention is held

That is: you can't hold binding elections for delegates before the first Tuesday of February.

Party Rule 16:
(a) If any state or state party violates the Rules of the Republican Party relating to the timing of the selection process resulting in the election of delegates or alternate delegates to the next national convention, such state shall suffer a loss of its delegates and alternate delegates to that national convention as follows:

(1) If a state or state party violates the Rules of the Republican Party relating to the timing of the selection process resulting in the election of delegates or alternate delegates to the national convention before the call to the national convention is issued, then the number of delegates to the national convention from that state shall be reduced by fifty percent (50%), and the corresponding alternated delegates shall also be reduced.

The State parties have known this rule since 2004 and knew the consequences of moving their primaries up early.

Stop this conspiracy BS.
 
I do believe this is a blatant move to get Giuliani elected. It's been said that he could careless about the early primary states and would instead focus on the rest of the country for the big day in February. This move effective eliminates any momentum of any candidate winning the early states since it give them half of the delegates they have earned. To me at least, whether against the law or not, this is complete fraud. Election reform is need so bad and primaries need to all be on the same day period.

You are, of course, entitled to your beliefs, but if you want to see Dr. Paul in the Oval Office, please keep your baseless conspiracy crap offline (or better, just to yourself).
 
The thing I picked up out of this is that even though this has been in the GOP 'rules' since 2000, it has never been enforced before by actually sanctioning a state. We knew the PTB would not go down without a fight and I think we just may be beginning to see it. Can't have some little up-start liberatarian-leaning congressman from Texas upsetting the apple-cart, now can we? While Florida MAY help counter-balance NH, it's not going to counter-balance NH, MI, and WY - all places where Dr. Paul is gaining traction.
 
Thank you Mr. Greer...keep after them!

FYI- It is important that we keep all of our delegates:
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RPOF Press Release - November 08, 2007
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Statement by Republican Party of Florida Chairman Jim Greer on Delegate Selection Process

Tallahassee—Republican Party of Florida Chairman Jim Greer released the following statement regarding the Republican National Committee’s Committee on the Call conference call today:
“Today’s conference call with the RNC was another step in the long delegate selection procedure which ends at the convention itself next August. While not surprised, I was disappointed that the full committee did not recognize the validity of Florida’s position that it is not in violation of the rule. This is a long process and I continue to be confident that Florida will ultimately seat its full delegation. I am appreciative of the members who supported Florida’s position and I look forward to continuing this dialogue in a respectful and cooperative manner.

“In the unlikely event that Florida’s delegation is reduced to 57 members, the Republican Party of Florida has adopted rules to ensure that Florida’s delegates to the convention have an influential and prominent role in selecting the Republican nominee.”

/////////////////////////////////////////////


Greer Tries To Get Florida's Delegates Back
08 Nov 2007 08:59 am

In deciding to hold its presidential primary on Jan. 29, the Florida Republican Party violated the national party's rules and has thus been subject to a penalty by RNC chairman Mike Duncan -- the Rule 16 penalty, so named after the line item that gives Duncan the power to take delegates away.

The party's committee on the call -- consisting of the RNC's membership -- will vote today to endorse the Duncan sanctions.

But state party chair Jim Greer has always promised that all delegates would be seated by the Republican National Convention in August, and in a letter to RNC members yesterday, Greer appeals to their inner conservative conscience.

He argues that a strict reading of the party's bylaws gives states the latitude to hold their primaries whenever they want provided that no delegate is selected for the national convention that day. (Iowa has taken advantage of this loophole for cycles because their caucuses allocate delegates to a county convention...which allocates delegates to a state convention...which allocates delegates to the national convention).

Writes Greer: "Under the plain language of Rule 16, the 50% penalty applies only to states that choose to SELECT DELEGATES prior to February 5th, and without question Florida will not select its delegates until after that date."

Republicans close to Greer say he is likely to run for RNC chair if Republicans lose the presidential race in 2008. Members of the RNC will keep that in mind as they read the letter.

Greer's letter was provided to this column by an RNC member.

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/11/greer_tries_to_get_floridas_de_2.php
 
will this work to our advantage? because it's very unlikely that any candidate will get enough delegates, so we would have to go to the convention?
 
On net, it helps us. re: FL.

Agreed.

And everyone might think I'm way off base here, but I think there's more to this than delegates. If Paul actually wins this thing at the ballot box, I don't see how the party can't make sure he gets the nomination. Anything else would doom them.
 
This helps more than hurts. Rudy has FL locked up, and now he looses half a big state.

Half of NH and NV is much fewer delegates
 
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