Man Cleared for Killing Neighbor's Burglars

[lucius]

'Castle Doctrine' Gives Texans Unprecedented Authority to Take Action Against Intruders: http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=5283784&page=1

"A Texas man who shot and killed two men he believed to be burglars while he was talking to a 911 dispatcher won't be going to trial. A grand jury on Monday declined to indict Joe Horn, a 61-year-old computer technician who lives in Pasadena, Texas, just outside Houston."

"Both suspects were shot in the back and were pronounced dead at the scene.

Harris County District Attorney Kenneth Magidson stood by the grand jury's decision.

"I understand the concerns of some in the community regarding Mr. Horn's conduct," Magidson told reporters at the courthouse. "The use of deadly force is carefully limited in Texas law to certain circumstances. ... In this case, however, the grand jury concluded that Mr. Horn's use of deadly force did not rise to a criminal offense."

The dead men, Diego Ortiz and Miguel de Jesus, were two illegal immigrants from Colombia. Family and friends wanted to see Horn prosecuted."

 

[constituent]

I think the guy's a piece of shit....

but the prison system is worse.

And...

"if you break into someone's home expect that you might just get shot" (imo) is a good message to send.

 

[phixion]

I think the guy's a piece of shit....

but the prison system is worse.

And...

"if you break into someone's home expect that you might just get shot" (imo) is a good message to send.

A piece of sh** - how so?

Pete

 

[constituent]

A piece of sh** - how so?

Pete

1) it wasn't his property to "defend."

2) he gave the guys almost no warning

3) he shot the guys in the back

4) it's just stuff.

 

[hypnagogue]

1) it wasn't his property to "defend."

2) he gave the guys almost no warning

3) he shot the guys in the back

4) it's just stuff.

This exactly. I think he's just a bitter old shit who wanted to shoot someone.

 

[newyearsrevolution08]

Here is a thought though, do you see anyone robbing in that neighborhood after this? I give him props, the cops were not there for over 6+ minutes as far as it looks in the audio and he gave a "Stop or I will shoot" command and they did not follow. Say goodnight illegal assholes.

 

[Danke]

Here is a thought though, do you see anyone robbing in that neighborhood after this? I give him props, the cops were not there for over 6+ minutes as far as it looks in the audio and he gave a "Stop or I will shoot" command and they did not follow. Say goodnight illegal assholes.

Not too long ago in Texas (still?) stealing a man's horse was a hanging offense.

 

[Andrew-Austin]

"If you break into someone's home expect that you might just get shot."

Cool. Indeed.

Don't know if the man's judgment of that particular situation was all that sharp, but I agree with this statement in general.

 

[bill50]

I'm from liberal MA and I think he did the right thing.

 

[angelatc]

1) it wasn't his property to "defend."

2) he gave the guys almost no warning

3) he shot the guys in the back

4) it's just stuff.

I am happy our founding fathers didn't feel the same way about property rights.

 

[SeanEdwards]

Surprising ruling. Could almost be considered a kind of jury nullification scenario. It sure sounded like he deserved to be indicted.

 

[Dr.3D]

1) it wasn't his property to "defend."

2) he gave the guys almost no warning

3) he shot the guys in the back

4) it's just stuff.

I've heard plenty of crooks use the same reasoning.

The fact is, they knew they were breaking the law.

They knew they were doing something they should not have been doing.

They wrongly assumed they would get away with what they were doing because they thought nobody would shoot them for just breaking into somebody's house and stealing their stuff.

In my opinion, they got what they deserved.
If more of this kind of thing happened, the crooks wouldn't even think about doing what those guys had been doing.

Obviously, the justice system in our country hasn't done enough to deter such crimes or these kinds of crimes wouldn't be so common.

In the state I live in, if somebody opens the door on you car and jumps in, you have the right to shoot them on the spot. There has been way too much car jacking going on and perhaps the crooks knowing they may lose their lives when trying to commit this kind of crime will think twice before trying doing these things.

 

[satchelmcqueen]

Some of you here are way off. Ild love to have this guy as my neighbor. here is a REAL friend. i dont care what the law says, if i see my neighbors home being robbed, ill also shoot the robber.

ive listened to the entire 911 tape as should some of you. he saw the 2 guys comming out of the house with property in their hands. they are not "alleged burglars" ..they ARE burglars. He saw what they were doing and they ran towards him and one even onto his land so he shot them.

ill tell you this much, if this ever happens to me ill shoot also...not to kill, but if they die then, well they shouldnt have been causing crime near my home where im at everyday with my family. And also a 12 Gauge can do massive damage. Thats what i use. Ive ran people off from my neighbors home when he was building his house. these guys were snooping around near night fall and i saw them. i grabbed my machete and walked over there and they left and didnt come back. my neighbor didnt get robbed and i wasnt cased out for a future robbery.

if you dont agree fine, just lay down and be passive. let the bad guys have your place and neighbors place for themselves.

 

[constituent]

Some of you here are way off. Ild love to have this guy as my neighbor. here is a REAL friend. i dont care what the law says, if i see my neighbors home being robbed, ill also shoot the robber.

Sorry, known one too many "Whuuul aye noes how tuh' shoot" billy bad-asses in my time who blew their own faces off, or any other number of dumb-ass mistakes to appreciate you sentiment.

ive listened to the entire 911 tape as should some of you. he saw the 2 guys comming out of the house with property in their hands. they are not "alleged burglars" ..they ARE burglars. He saw what they were doing and they ran towards him and one even onto his land so he shot them.

I've listened to it too.

"Move and haaaaiiiiii'll shoot (boom)"

[note, not "Move and haaaaaiiiiii'll shoot... boom"]

I suggest everyone listen to the tape.

ill tell you this much, if this ever happens to me ill shoot also...not to kill, but if they die then, well they shouldnt have been causing crime near my home where im at everyday with my family.

Hahahah, you don't understand "crime."

Ive ran people off from my neighbors home when he was building his house. these guys were snooping around near night fall and i saw them. i grabbed my machete and walked over there and they left and didnt come back. my neighbor didnt get robbed and i wasnt cased out for a future robbery.

And to think... they were probably just trying to drink a beer w/out gettin' harassed by the cops (just as likely as they were there to rob it... as far as you know)

A machete? c'mon man.

You're lucky you walked away alive. When I was ducking behind walls trying to sip on my beers, I'd have shot you on the spot.

if you dont agree fine, just lay down and be passive. let the bad guys have your place and neighbors place for themselves.

You've clearly never met me.

 

[V-rod]

The guy broke the law, but I still wouldn't of convicted him if I was in the jury. Those guys he shot committed crimes before and most likely would of done some more and possibly hurt others. Most I would give would be 3 years probation.

 

[constituent]

I am happy our founding fathers didn't feel the same way about property rights.

Me too (a significant percentage of us would still be property).

 

[ELT]

I'm pretty big on property rights, huge on self-defense and protecting your family. There's no other way, BUT...

As a dude stated a few posts up, they were coming at this guy into his yard? Really? I didn't hear that part. If that's true, of course blow their shit away without hesitation. On the other hand, wasn't this at dark? Could he really 100% identify these guys, did he see what they had, how did he know they weren't relatives, or stealing back something that was originally stolen from them, guests of the neighbors saving belongings from a fire inside, etc, etc, or any huge numbers of unknown scenarios.

The fact is, he shot them in the back, they were fleeing, if there was ever a threat (did they have any weapons?) it was over as they were hauling ass away.

I this case, I think the guy was wrong, and it's very surprising he got off.
My argument? What's the penalty for stealing a stereo, tv, etc., even if you've done it 5 times before? What maybe some probation or small jail time? Not death. Yes, the death penalty if they came at him, or were in his house (you don't know if someone is going to kill you if they are in your house un-invited), then fine, kill them...but running away from you? They mean you no harm and this was not defense...

I don't agree with QuanellX and these racist fools doing all this protesting about it, etc. I mean stay the hell away fools, and keep your racist opinions to yourself...

They were illegals, I'm also for getting all illegals the hell out of our country, but take out the trash the correct way! They may have been trash but should be rotting in jail not dead (unless the cops got there and found out they were wanted for murder, rape, etc., then lock them up and in due time FRY them! This guy should not have been their judge/jury/executioner...

 

[satchelmcqueen]

....

 

[Bryan]

I'm not going to argue about the specifics of this case but two related items strike me- the tape says the dispatcher said:

"Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?"

What kind of training is that? Who is he to say? (Edit- ChickenHawk says it best below- it's about protecting your right not to be victimized)


Also: "This man took the law into his own hands," Stephanie Storey, De Jesus' fiancée, told ABC News just after the shootings. "He shot two individuals in the back after having been told over and over to stay inside."

Is it worth noting that what some dispatcher says is legally, morally and ethically irrelevant?


If I ever call 911 it's to ask for reinforcements (for whatever emergency it is)-- not to ask for advice of what to do.

 

[ChickenHawk]

I don't really agree with what the guy did but I think it is important that people don't get prosecuted for stuff like this. This sends a powerful message to all the criminal dirt bags out there that might be thinking about breaking into my house.

Also, people who say that property isn't worth shooting someone over are missing the real issue. It's not about the property, it's about your right not to be victimized. If you have five dollars in you pocket and someone tries to steal it and you shoot them you didn't kill them over five dollars you killed them for attempting to victimize you.