Lions for Lambs

[sidster]

Just watched this movie tonight. I was wondering if any
of you have seen it and what you thought of it?

 

[hillertexas]

I have it at home right now...will watch it either tonight or tomorrow night.

Was it good?

 

[sidster]

I have it at home right now...will watch it either tonight or tomorrow night.

Was it good?

eh... slow moving. But I expected it to be. I was just
curious to see what others thought of the movie, the
characters, especially the two students who enlisted
and their perspective on "things".

 

[hillertexas]

SPOILER ALERT:

watched it tonight. I thought it was really well done. The rhetoric interspersed with the actual soldiers was really effective in making the point as to just how far removed from the soldiers people are. I thought most of the dialogue was brilliant, however I did not appreciate the references to the Republicans being the bad guy. As far as the two soldiers and their logic behind enlisting...

I can understand wanting to actually go there and find out first hand what is happening. The general population is given mixed messages and the younger generation is a generation full of independent people who want to see things for themselves. I also think their socio-economic background made them more prone to joining the military. I think their reasoning made sense within their characters however I do think that there was a fatal flaw in their logic...a flaw that Robert Redford was trying to get through to them...and that is that they did not understand their own mortality...they thought they were invincible.

As far as their "junior year of high school" idea...

As long as it is still required to have a junior year, I have no problem with, instead of classes, learning some kind of life skills. Whether it be the peace corps, working in inner cities, etc., I think requiring something like that instead of the already required junior year is an ok proposal. However I think they only had 3 options and I would want the requirement to be more vague and open to the student to choose what to do for that year.

I think overall, the boys had ideas and nobody would listen and they thought that being war vets would somehow make them more credible to the general population. That was, I think, the whole point of the movie...everyone is talking but nobody is listening.

 

[TheSkeptic]

I thought it was one hell of a movie. It was one of those movies like "Traffic" or "Syriana" that takes an issue that is so critical and really shows the guts of it.

And, of course, because it has a lot of dialog, it's written off by most of the dumbass people living in this country.

 

[sidster]

watched it tonight. I thought it was really well done. The rhetoric interspersed with the actual soldiers was really effective in making the point as to just how far removed from the soldiers people are. I thought most of the dialogue was brilliant, however I did not appreciate the references to the Republicans being the bad guy. As far as the two soldiers and their logic behind enlisting...

Or vise versa. Kinda reminded me of what GunnyFreedom posted
here about how the marines, and by extension I assume all solders,
aren't exposed to the MSM (news?) as much as civilians are.

As far as their "junior year of high school" idea...

As long as it is still required to have a junior year, I have no problem with, instead of classes, learning some kind of life skills. Whether it be the peace corps, working in inner cities, etc., I think requiring something like that instead of the already required junior year is an ok proposal. However I think they only had 3 options and I would want the requirement to be more vague and open to the student to choose what to do for that year.

And the bit about their plan to get students involved in "community
service" reminded me of this thread and Obama's plan of $3.5 billion
to entice participation in AmeriCorps and community service
(link referenced in thread).

I think overall, the boys had ideas and nobody would listen and they thought that being war vets would somehow make them more credible to the general population. That was, I think, the whole point of the movie...everyone is talking but nobody is listening.

I didn't get that at all. Interesting.

I found it also interesting how the reporter J. Roth (Streep's
character) was "pressured" to fold even though it looked like
she might actually be doing the right thing this time around....

 

[hillertexas]

Or vise versa. Kinda reminded me of what GunnyFreedom posted
here about how the marines, and by extension I assume all solders,
aren't exposed to the MSM (news?) as much as civilians are.

Vice versa...absolutely. I agree with you that the soldiers over there are less exposed to the MSM. However, the two soldiers in the movie enlisted the previous school year and at the dinner with Redford, they seemed very informed. I think soldiers in real life are kept in the dark as much as possible. I remember trying to reason with my cousin, who is a navy seal. He is a very intelligent man who was blown up by a roadside bomb in Iraq ( he survived but the soldier he was with did not). When he returned to the US, he watched all of the debates and knew about Ron Paul. However, he still had the "we are fighting them over there so they don't come over here" mentality drilled into his psyche. Here is an example of an email from him:

I have been watching the GOP debates and I feel Ron Paul is pretty off base on some of the issues. At least some that I find near and dear to my heart. I have seen first hand what this government is doing in Iraq and I think Ron Paul is really in the dark on these issues. I am all for pulling the troops out of Iraq but if we do we must use them to secure our borders. The Islamic fanatics we are fighting over there WILL come over here. Im excited to see future debates. I enjoy election time when we can all share our points of view. I try and keep an open mind and listen to everyone.

I think the problem is that they really believe that they are doing the right thing. But I really think more and more of our troops are waking up every day...even the ones over there. And sometimes that can be a problem...waking up. I think that the reason that our troops' suicide rate is so high right now is because, unlike Vietnam, they are not completely "over there". They get email and are exposed to current news...not as much as civilians...but some. I think there is a lot of "What the fuck am I doing?" thinking going on.

And the bit about their plan to get students involved in "community
service" reminded me of this thread and Obama's plan of $3.5 billion
to entice participation in AmeriCorps and community service
(link referenced in thread).

I would not be ok with the proposal if it involved additional mandates or funding. But since a students' junior year is already spoken for, I would be ok with that year being spent in another way...chosen by the student. It could be volunteering somewhere or working a job...anything that would develop life skills. I think it would work if the student decided and it was coordinated/paid for by the parents of said student. Then they could submit a proposal of sorts to the school as to what the student would be doing. The school approves, and that is that.

I didn't get that at all. Interesting.

I got that from the dinner scene with Redford and the two students.

I found it also interesting how the reporter J. Roth (Streep's
character) was "pressured" to fold even though it looked like
she might actually be doing the right thing this time around....

Yea, the dance between the MSM and politics I found interesting as well.

Oh and Sidster, I have been pretty inactive around here lately, and it has been really nice to have a conversation here again. So...thanks.

 

[sidster]

I think soldiers in real life are kept in the dark as much as possible. I remember trying to reason with my cousin, who is a navy seal. He is a very intelligent man who was blown up by a roadside bomb in Iraq ( he survived but the soldier he was with did not). When he returned to the US, he watched all of the debates and knew about Ron Paul. However, he still had the "we are fighting them over there so they don't come over here" mentality drilled into his psyche.

I suspect that. In a way, I see that it is necessary for this,
simply because you don't want solders putting their lives
on the line to have to deal with doubts about what they
are doing out there, or second guessing themselves or their
leaders. The only thing they should worry about is keeping
themselves alive.

Here is an example of an email from him:

I have been watching the GOP debates and I feel Ron Paul is pretty off base on some of the issues. At least some that I find near and dear to my heart. I have seen first hand what this government is doing in Iraq and I think Ron Paul is really in the dark on these issues. I am all for pulling the troops out of Iraq but if we do we must use them to secure our borders. The Islamic fanatics we are fighting over there WILL come over here. Im excited to see future debates. I enjoy election time when we can all share our points of view. I try and keep an open mind and listen to everyone.

I think the problem is that they really believe that they are doing the right thing. But I really think more and more of our troops are waking up every day...even the ones over there. And sometimes that can be a problem...waking up.

Thanks for sharing that bit from your email exchange!

As for "waking up", from time to time I find myself in situations
where I am astonished as how some civilians are blind to the
injustices that are taking place, both in our country and abroad.

I had a very uncomfortable 'incident' at my tax-person's office
this past March. I don't even know how we got there. He is a
very "jolly" kind of a guy, always joking and such. Then small
talk got to Obama and Obama's stance on the Iraq war (back
then). I said something, and I don't recall what it was, but that
made this guy blow his entire fuse panel. He went off on me
pretty much on. I was completely blindsided by his reaction.

Oh and Sidster, I have been pretty inactive around here lately, and it has been really nice to have a conversation here again. So...thanks.

Likewise HillerTexas, been a pleasure.

Cheers!