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Libertarian Presidential Candidates Champion 'Open Borders'

Sammy

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https://reason.com/2020/02/26/libertarian-presidential-candidates-champion-open-borders/

Donald Trump, the most anti-immigrant president since Franklin Delano Roosevelt, is running against a Democratic presidential field that almost unanimously favors providing government-run health insurance to illegal immigrants. Surely there is some middle ground between Stephen Miller-style family separation and a massive expansion of the welfare state to millions living outside the law?
The Libertarian Party, still the country's number-three political grouping (however distantly), has a platform very copacetic toward immigrants, if not quite via state largesse.
"Libertarians believe that people should be able to travel freely as long as they are peaceful," the party's immigration plank reads. "A truly free market requires the free movement of people, not just products and ideas….Of course, if someone has a record of violence, credible plans for violence, or acts violently, then Libertarians support blocking their entry, deporting, and/or prosecuting and imprisoning them, depending on the offense."
Bottom line: "Libertarians do not support classifying undocumented immigrants as criminals. Our current immigration system is an embarrassment. People who would like to follow the legal procedures are unable to because these procedures are so complex and expensive and lengthy. If Americans want immigrants to enter through legal channels, we need to make those channels fair, reasonable, and accessible."
To a notable degree, the L.P.'s top 2020 presidential candidates are hewing to the party's radical-for-American-politics immigration platform.
"One of the proudest positions that we have in this party is our open-border plank," Future of Freedom Foundation founder Jacob Hornberger, who won the party's non-binding presidential caucuses in Iowa and Minnesota this month, said during a California debate that I moderated Feb. 16. "I grew up on a farm on the Rio Grande. We hired illegal immigrants….Y'all know about the checkpoints. We got 'em over there. I've been stopped by the Border Patrol myself when I was in high school, 'Open up your trunk!' Warrantless searches onto our farm to bust our workers. It's a police state, and there's only one solution to it: Dismantle it all. People have a fundamental, God-given right to cross borders like human beings and not die of thirst and dehydration in the desert and on the back of 18-wheelers."
There were five other candidates on stage that night, and each said similar things.
Media entrepreneur and current fundraising leader Adam Kokesh, whose big campaign idea is signing an executive order on day one that dissolves the federal government, posited that "Government borders are not legitimate," and that "only private property borders" deserve respect. Kokesh then added: "And if being American means anything about standing up to unjust authority and employing civil disobedience, I would dare say most who come here illegally are more American than the average apathetic American today."
Performance artist and serial candidate Vermin Supreme, who won the party's only other early-state contest so far (New Hampshire), quipped that "You cannot outlaw people. If you outlaw people, only people will be outlaws."
Deep-pocketed race newcomer Mark Whitney, an ex-convict comedy enthusiast who founded THELAWNET, said of undocumented immigrants, "I not only want them to be citizens, I want them working on my campaign."

Academic and 1996 L.P. vice presidential nominee Jo Jorgensen complained that, "Right now, we've got a system in which we keep everybody out, except we just let a few people in. What we need to do is flip it and just let everybody in."
And bipartisan former Rhode Island governor and U.S. senator Lincoln Chafee stressed the political expediency of it all: "I see this as a political advantage that with our open-border policy and libertarian views on immigration, especially the fastest-growing voting bloc in the United States, the Hispanics, are going to have the opportunity in 2020 to look at our platform and come to our side."
Among the eight other presidential candidates who attended the California L.P. convention but didn't convince enough delegates to send them to the debate stage, only one, Phil Gray, even mentioned immigration during his allotted three-minute speech the night before, and that was in service to Gray's unusual idea of having undocumented workers pay down the country's $23 trillion debt.
Among the more than two dozen candidates currently vying for the Libertarian presidential nomination, you can find the occasional balking at open borders: New Hampshire state Rep. Max Abramson ("Go after companies that replace American workers and Green Card holders with illegal immigrants and stop enticing opportunists to come into the country illegally"), business consultant and recent party-switcher Blake Ashby ("I do not believe in an open border, or an open commitment to accept refugees"), pipe welder/fitter and outdoorsman Kenneth Blevins ("I fully support legal and vetted immigration"), FedEx Hawaiian Steven Richey ("owning property and sending remittances should be reserved for citizens"), "business owner, singer, minister, lover of people" Demetra Jefferson Wysinger ("entering our nation illegally is NOT immigration it is an invasion and a crime"), and "alchemist jedi" Jedidiah Hill ("Integrate the people into society have them learn English and put them to work").
But with the exception of Abramson, none of these candidates have made a noticeable splash during primary season, and even Abramson finished a desultory 14th in the primary balloting in his home state.
The bigger story is the story that isn't there. Which is to say, while immigration politics tends to at least somewhat divide all political blocs, including both libertarians and Libertarians, that particular dog is just not hunting in this principle-driven L.P. presidential cycle.
A key figure in that development is Jacob Hornberger, who is not only the most well-known libertarian intellectual running, but also has the backing of the party's growing Mises Caucus, which adheres to the Austrian school of economics and affiliates positively with members of the Ludwig von Mises Institute in Auburn, Alabama. (LvMI Senior Fellow and popular podcaster Tom Woods sits on the Mises Caucus's advisory board, and has endorsed Hornberger, as has comic Dave Smith.)
Leadership figures in the Libertarian Party and Mises Institute have been sniping periodically at one another since 2017, in part over the perceived politically correct "identity politics" in the L.P. versus the perceived politically incorrect "blood and soil" enthusiasms at LvMI. (Read my account of their clash at the 2018 Libertarian National Convention.) Some Libertarians never tire of pointing out LvMI's hospitality toward nationalists like Hans-Hermann Hoppe; the Misesites, in turn, rarely miss an opportunity to mock L.P. National types for "virtue signaling."
Yet both sides have stayed in the same party tent, with Woods and Smith, in particular, helping whip up new recruits on their podcasts. And in Hornberger, a longtime friend of Ron Paul, the Mises enthusiasts have someone who is both unimpeachably anti-war (the issue that, along with ending the Federal Reserve, the Austrians elevate above all) and unapologetically open borders. No blood and soil on this Texan's watch.
At the Massachusetts state Libertarian convention last July, months before he jumped into the race, Hornberger gave a fire-and-brimstone defense of open immigration as essential to a free society.
"One of the most glorious, honorable positions that this party has ever taken is open borders," he said. "Oh I know, Libertarians will say 'Oh my God, this is an albatross, Jacob! This is a liability! This is costing votes! We need to join up with Republicans and Democrats on this issue!' Perish the thought. There are people dying in the American Southwest in deserts from dehydration and thirst. They're dying crossing the Rio Grande, including children. They're dying in the back of 18-wheelers. They're having children taken away from their families. You have a police state all along the border in the Southwest, and in Texas. There is no way to reconcile all of this police-state action and death and suffering—and for Libertarians to ever align themselves would be a moral abomination."
Part of what makes Hornberger's immigration message saleable to Libertarians is that he couples it with obliterating, not expanding, the welfare state.
"We live in a society that is based on massive mandatory charity," he said in Massachusetts. "With the crown jewels of this system being Social Security and Medicare, along with a host of others. There is no way to reconcile a genuinely free society with mandatory charity. No way at all. Because people have a natural, God-given right to keep everything they earn, and decide for themselves what to do with it….And so if we are going to achieve a free society it necessarily presupposes a dismantling of infringements on liberty, and that includes Social Security and Medicare. You have to repeal, abolish, dismantle infringements on liberty in order to achieve the free society."
The L.P. presidential race, which will be settled at the national convention in Austin, Texas, May 21-25, has so far been a battle to see who can best represent the libertarian wing of the Libertarian Party. As such it is striking, in this moment of major-party polarization and deep immigration-policy divides, to see a principled Libertarian immigration message emerging: Mr. Trump, tear down this wall.



 
I don't understand "libertarians" who support open borders. Closed borders protects private property owners on the border from trespassing by foreigners. The constitution gives the federal government the responsibility to protect our rights. Including our property rights.
 
I don't understand "libertarians" who support open borders. Closed borders protects private property owners on the border from trespassing by foreigners. The constitution gives the federal government the responsibility to protect our rights. Including our property rights.

Anytime I go to Louisiana from here I just drive through someone's pasture. It's the only way.
 
This was written about a month ago. Love to hear their opinion on it now with historical precedence. Think that might be relevant? Who knows.
 
Again proving the LP exists to fill the spot to prevent actual libertarian beliefs and voices from becoming mainstream.
 
I wholeheartedly am for open borders. There is not enough talk about ending the welfare state.

Closed borders results in the following:

1. Identification, paper and/or biometrics, to distinguish you from me.

2. Provides the state, Fed, a database of information that is none of their MF business.

3. The state, Fed, utilizes Eminent Domain, taking rightful property from those who own it.

4. Elimination of private contract rights, registering with the government, forced to pay taxes and Grow the Fed, and also requires employers to pay mandated government minimum wage.

5. Requires enforcement by Government Employees.

6. Once signed up with Fed.gov, 5 years later they are eligible to vote, including standing in line at the Welfare office.

7. Stymies a $1 Billion Per Day economy, disrupting/closing farms and companies, pushing more, including Americans, onto government assist.

People learn nothing. Every time any time folks want the government to fix a problem that they created, it comes back to me and the money I earn!

MORE talk about the freedom to travel freely and the elimination of welfare/handouts needs to start now, lest you be biometrically identified, your private property seized for the “greater good” and contract rights between you and employee be taken away. Which has gone on long enough. Including PAYING for a wall, more government offices, government employees, and laws/bureaucratic red tape.

KEEP them “illegal”. As such they are not entitled to anything without ID!
 
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I wholeheartedly am for open borders. There is not enough talk about ending the welfare state.

Closed borders results in the following:

1. Identification, paper and/or biometrics, to distinguish you from me.

2. Provides the state, Fed, a database of information that is none of their MF business.

3. The state, Fed, utilizes Eminent Domain, taking rightful property from those who own it.

4. Elimination of private contract rights, registering with the government, forced to pay taxes and Grow the Fed, and also requires employers to pay mandated government minimum wage.

5. Requires enforcement by Government Employees.

6. Once signed up with Fed.gov, 5 years later they are eligible to vote, including standing in line at the Welfare office.

7. Stymies a $1 Billion Per Day economy, disrupting/closing farms and companies, pushing more, including Americans, onto government assist.

People learn nothing. Every time any time folks want the government to fix a problem that they created, it comes back to me and the money I earn!

MORE talk about the freedom to travel freely and the elimination of welfare/handouts needs to start now, lest you be biometrically identified, your private property seized for the “greater good” and contract rights between you and employee be taken away. Which has gone on long enough. Including PAYING for a wall, more government offices, government employees, and laws/bureaucratic red tape.

KEEP them “illegal”. As such they are not entitled to anything without ID!

1) Only if you're attempting to cross the border.
2) Again, it's none of their business if you're not crossing the border.
3) Utilizing eminent domain is part of the constitution. If you don't like it, talk to the Founders, or try amending the Constitution.
4) Border security has existed long before the Federal Reserve or the 16th amendment was ever established. Private contracts don't need to be eliminated to provide border security.
5) Private security can also be utilized by private property owners in addition to border patrol.
6) I don't understand this statement.
7) Again, I don't see what this has to do with border security.

Border security isn't a fix. It's a responsibility assigned to the federal government by the Constitution, and it keeps private property owners protected from trespassing by foreigners.
 
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"Libertarians believe that people should be able to travel freely as long as they are peaceful,"

And what if they are not?

This invasion we are suffering under is not "organic".

It is a well orchestrated and well funded act of war, for the purpose of demographic control of territory by displacing and overwhelming the existing population.

Why don't you ask these guys how unlimited immigration, into a borderless world, of people hostile to them and their traditions and cultures and heritage...ask them how it worked out.

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1) Only if you're attempting to cross the border.
2) Again, it's none of their business if you're not crossing the border.
3) Utilizing eminent domain is part of the constitution. If you don't like it, talk to the Founders, or try amending the Constitution.
4) Border security has existed long before the Federal Reserve or the 16th amendment was ever established. Private contracts don't need to be eliminated to provide border security.
5) Private security can also be utilized by private property owners in addition to border patrol.
6) I don't understand this statement.
7) Again, I don't see what this has to do with border security.

Border security isn't a fix. It's a responsibility assigned to the federal government by the Constitution, and it keeps private property owners protected from trespassing by foreigners.

You have too many “if’s” for my liking, so here is one for you:

Perhaps if people quit meddling in my own business, and quit shifting responsibility to others and the government, I would not have to work so hard to live freely and keep my own money.

Here, this might help: http://www.kopubco.com/pdf/An_Agorist_Primer_by_SEK3.pdf
 
Yeah, sure libertarians; start with the most pie-in-the-sky issue and see how many converts you make. :rolleyes:

Many libertarians have no marketing or business sense. Focusing, or even addressing, this issue is a sure fire way for newcomers to instantly reject freedom.

There are plenty of other issues to address. Focus on something else.
 
[MENTION=40029]PAF[/MENTION]
Do you believe in National sovereignty? Most New Immigrants support gun control,bigger government & higher Taxes that's anti Libertarian.
I really like you but you are wrong on this issue!
 
[MENTION=40029]PAF[/MENTION]
Do you believe in National sovereignty? Most New Immigrants support gun control,bigger government & higher Taxes that's anti Libertarian.
I really like you but you are wrong on this issue!

The feeling is mutual Sammy. I can only go by my own experience, living where I live and traveling abroad. It was immigrants and the like who helped me the most during RP’s run in 2012. Abroad, they can’t stand the U.S. meddling into their affairs and consider us the invaders.

Many of my friends and acquaintances in my area who are immigrants own businesses and work hard, and cannot stand the tax rates and other mandates the state/fed impose on them. It is the white multi-generational Americans who are in Section 8, having kid after kid by 3-4 guys, who become irate when I mention to them that there are businesses hiring just down the road.
 
The feeling is mutual Sammy. I can only go by my own experience, living where I live and traveling abroad. It was immigrants and the like who helped me the most during RP’s run in 2012. Abroad, they can’t stand the U.S. meddling into their affairs and consider us the invaders.

Many of my friends and acquaintances in my area who are immigrants own businesses and work hard, and cannot stand the tax rates and other mandates the state/fed impose on them. It is the white multi-generational Americans who are in Section 8, having kid after kid by 3-4 guys, who become irate when I mention to them that there are businesses hiring just down the road.

That's fine you want to draw off personal experiences, and perfectly legitimate. My question: Have you ever lived in States that have taken in refugees? In Northern Virginia, we've got a big pocket of El Salvadorians. I went to a high school that's 30% white, perfectly multi-cultural. Except a lot of my friends parents never bothered to learn to speak English. There are mechanics, bakeries, a whole swath of businesses that operate on a Spanish-only basis. How is that not going to cause problems, when people come here, and create their own totally separate communities where we can't even speak in the same language to each other? And they do. My friends parents have done it for 15 years. And they certainly aren't doing it all by themselves.

So: I've actually done some numbers in another thread: State Electorates Rapidly Changed by Mass Immigration, I'll give you that 25% are "good" guys, but we're seeing 60% of them "bad guys". Great - Virginia gets 75,000 rear-busting, honest to God, great people. That's awesome. How does that help when we get 186,000 bad ones?
 
That's fine you want to draw off personal experiences, and perfectly legitimate. My question: Have you ever lived in States that have taken in refugees? In Northern Virginia, we've got a big pocket of El Salvadorians. I went to a high school that's 30% white, perfectly multi-cultural. Except a lot of my friends parents never bothered to learn to speak English. There are mechanics, bakeries, a whole swath of businesses that operate on a Spanish-only basis. How is that not going to cause problems, when people come here, and create their own totally separate communities where we can't even speak in the same language to each other? And they do. My friends parents have done it for 15 years. And they certainly aren't doing it all by themselves.

So: I've actually done some numbers in another thread: State Electorates Rapidly Changed by Mass Immigration, I'll give you that 25% are "good" guys, but we're seeing 60% of them "bad guys". Great - Virginia gets 75,000 rear-busting, honest to God, great people. That's awesome. How does that help when we get 186,000 bad ones?

All I can say is trump, bush, elected politicians, school boards, etc are filled with white Americans (I am too btw), and they refuse to even talk about the indoctrination camps which are our public school system, and the FedDeptEd. If you think immigrants, undocumented even, have any control over the White House and their quest for power, think again. Keep them all out, restrict my freedom to travel freely, pay for that wall while taking private property that does not belong to you and me, sign up for that eVerify and pump all that data up to the Feds, and see if they change their tune and eliminate the camps.

It is a ruse. They will use any tactic to get you to buy into their scheme, having you believe that if we keep foreigners out they will magically turn pure and return schools back to local. Obama started building that wall, requiring Mexicans to “sign up” with the government, only back then Republicans stood up and fought for their private property and contract rights. In comes trump the real estate magnate that he is, republicans give him a pass and make a hard turn left.

Read my signature ;-)
 
All I can say is trump, bush, elected politicians, school boards, etc are filled with white Americans (I am too btw), and they refuse to even talk about the indoctrination camps which are our public school system, and the FedDeptEd. If you think immigrants, undocumented even, have any control over the White House and their quest for power, think again.

Well, voting immigrants who are aligned with big government certainly make big government's job easier. In VA, it looks like they accounted for half the winning votes (and we're still importing them, that was back in 2017). I can't agree that making our job, getting back to limited government, twice as hard, is a good idea.
-Sure, there are the powerful white Americans who benefit from Globalism and their gated communities. There are a ton that don't.
-The point is, is that surveys have been taken, and they've found that immigrants are decidedly less American than Americans (sounds believable to me).​

So that's awesome that you have had good experiences with immigrants. That's great on personal levels that you are able to control. In a nation of 300 million, we can't base this policy off anecdotal experiences. The numbers show immigrants are making America less small government. If we want to change the game, ensure our immigration policy leads us back to smaller government voting, then yeah, I'd jump on that immigration train. But that isn't happening.


Keep them all out, restrict my freedom to travel freely, pay for that wall while taking private property that does not belong to you and me, sign up for that eVerify and pump all that data up to the Feds, and see if they change their tune and eliminate the camps.

Yeah, the majority of control can be done at the US border, which the vast majority of Americans won't interact with. A small percent will; that's unfortunate. The world's never been perfect. Better than the alternative of immigrants giving the Democratic party a 100% monopoly in 20 years time when we're ballot stuffed out of the equation.

It is a ruse. They will use any tactic to get you to buy into their scheme, having you believe that if we keep foreigners out they will magically turn pure and return schools back to local. Obama started building that wall, requiring Mexicans to “sign up” with the government, only back then Republicans stood up and fought for their private property and contract rights. In comes trump the real estate magnate that he is, republicans give him a pass and make a hard turn left.

Read my signature ;-)

No, I don't believe that keeping foreigners out is the panacea for all of our problems. But when you have wounds, I believe some of the first medical advice is to stop the bleeding, no? Let's stop, what we know to be, importing opposed ideology by a 62:25 margin. That's not helping.

As others have posted, the Libertarian party is infuriating when they show absolutely 0 political acumen. They are 1000% putting the cart in front of the horse in this scenario. They talk about how great immigration could be. And it could be. But absolutely not in this environment where it is weaponized to import refugees that support Democrat big government. They are giving away everything, letting the D's import as many as they want, without getting anything in return. Because no one, in this environment, is going to stop the welfare system. That comes first. Absolutely. Until then, stop the bleeding.
 
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