KY State Convention 6-7-08 ADVICE PLEASE

[erin moore]

Kentucky's state convention is tomorrow. We have been thwamped so far in most counties and districts, but we are heading to state hoping to make a difference. Hopefully Rand will come. He came to district and we were not even allowed to debate resolutions or delegates. I am borrowing a lot of talking point from www.fairconvention.org

Any and all advice is welcome. Please be as positive as you can be though.

BTW I am personally pretty good with parlimentary procedure but most aren't. We are meeting in the morning and I am the official RP delegate parlimentarian. I am supposed to address everyone giving some last minute tips.... where should I concentrate with people who basically haven't gotten past (or even to) how to make a motion?

here's what I have so far for the talking points. (I will get several hundred printed up tomorrow to help people have something to say IF they get the chance.)

1. We want a fair convention. Why a Fair Convention? Because the State Convention of the Republican Party of Kentucky is the largest political convention in the state and it provides opportunity like no other for Kentucky Republicans to step up and set a course the rest of the country can follow. This opportunity should not be squandered on political posturing and power plays.

2. Our Party and our Nation face serious threats, and these threats demand that all of us, as those honored enough to be duly elected representatives of the Republican Party of Kentucky, treat them with the respect and seriousness they deserve.
We must not bow to fear or intimidation or the siren song of power -- we must instead maintain the freedom to assemble and act as a deliberative body, "to determine, in full and free discussion, courses of action to be taken in the name of the entire group."

3. We are here to do the business of the Republican Party of Kentucky, and we must demand fairness and respect for the Republican Form of Government. If we do not, we will have allowed activism and relativism to replace the Rule of Law in the one place where it should be the most protected, and we will have no means left to determine how best to continue to promote and defend our lives, our liberty, our values, and our families.

4. We the People are obligated to take hold of our responsibilities and assert ourselves as heirs to the Constitutional Federal Republic that so many others fought and died to create and sustain.

5. BE IT RESOLVED, That the Republican Party is the party of the open door. Ours is the party of liberty, the party of equality of opportunity for all and favoritism for none.
It is the intent and purpose of these rules to encourage and allow the broadest possible participation of all voters in Republican Party activities at all levels and to assure that the Republican Party is open and accessible to all Americans....
-- The Rules Of The Republican Party as adopted by the 2004 Republican National Convention August 30, 2004

• A Fair Convention Chair -- The fundamental purpose of a deliberative assembly is "to determine, in full and free discussion, courses of action to be taken in the name of the entire group." The duty of the Convention Chair is to facilitate this process and the determination of the will of the majority while protecting the rights of individual members to participate and the right of the minority to debate and attempt to convince others of their perspective. Neither the Chair nor any majority has the right to force their will on the body outside the bounds of the rules and the law. A Chair who "gavels down" motions and appeals and uses the rules as a tool of control should not be tolerated by any body that respects either the principles of a free society or the rule of law.

• Fair Debate & Fair Votes -- Party leadership in other states has attempted to portray attempts to have open debate about the problems facing our Party as divisive, and calls for fairness as somehow disruptive. We hope and pray that will not be the case in Kentucky, but power corrupts, and it is often trivial for an abusive leadership to gain cooperation or compliance from a majority in abusing the rights of a minority. Established leaders have the advantage in shaping popular perception and making those attempting to protect their rights appear disruptive or combative. Delegates must resist this tendency and strive to educate themselves on the issues at stake and the arguments being made for and against a given position so that they can vote in the best interests of the Republicans they represent. A true majority has nothing to fear from allowing a minority to present their case, and a body seeking truth and wisdom has nothing to fear from giving uncommon ideas a fair hearing and a fair vote. Elected delegates have a responsibility to think for themselves and the Republicans they represent, not simply do what is convenient for an established leadership.

 

[Matt Collins]

Why in the bloody hell would you wait until the freakin night before to post this?!!?!?!


A few weeks ago would've been good!

I live in Nashville which is one of the 10th largest Meetups in the country. Maybe we could've helped. I know Rand, we've hosted him at our events. I am fairly up on things. So are others in our Meetup. Perhaps I could've scheduled to be there or at least provided some sort of support. But the night before is NOT the time to ask for help.

My advice is to study everything that happened at the NV state convention and go from there.

 

[brooklyn]

Good luck ! Stay strong and firm. Know your groups numbers and be persistent in calling for fairness for ALL. That is how you will swing others to our side. PERSISTANCE- Do not let them shut you up or close you out! To stay silent is to concede-Do not let them do this to you. There is no point mumbling to those next to you if you feel they are cheating or breaking rules, challenge them at every turn if they are breaking the rules.
Microphone position is extremely important so position your best speakers as close as possible and make sure they speak their mind.
Have your selected reps hold signs for everyone to see and vote yay or nay loudly and use Div of assembly when you think they are not calling the voting properly.
Good luck, we are pulling for you guys.
If you have the numbers in your favor, replace chair and take it all!

 

[Join The Paul Side]

I'm no expert, but if it were me I would:

1. Show up early with a copy of Robert's Rules in hand, find Ron Paul Republicans, and band togeather.

2. Find allies: Huck or Romney Conservatives that hate McLiberal as much as we do.

3. Get an estimate of the crowd. Find out if you outnumber the McSheeple between our people and any allies found.

If you do:

Take the fucking convention over! Vote out the chair immediately with no hesitation since he is 99.99% likely to be actively looking to screw Ron Paul Delegates.

If you don't:

Challenge everything they do! Call for votes on anything they present to you, such as preprinted McWar ballots.

Wait for them to break the rules. Seriously........it will happen.

The moment they start breaking rules .......for the love of God......please.....DO NOT HESTITATE TO ROUND UP THE TROOPS AND RUMP!!!!

Ask questions later, Just F*%king Do It!



I hope I've helped.

 

[RPTXState]

I'm no expert, but if it were me I would:

1. Show up early with a copy of Robert's Rules in hand, find Ron Paul Republicans, and band togeather.

2. Find allies: Huck or Romney Conservatives that hate McLiberal as much as we do.

3. Get an estimate of the crowd. Find out if you outnumber them between our people and any allies found.

If you do:

Take the fucking convention over! Vote out the chair immediately with no hesitation since he is 99.99% likely to be actively looking to screw Ron Paul Delegates.

If you don't:

Challenge everything they do! Call for votes on anything they present to you, such as preprinted McWar ballots.

Wait for them to break the rules. Seriously........it will happen.

The moment they start breaking rules .......for the love of God......please.....DO NOT HESTITATE TO ROUND UP THE TROOPS AND RUMP!!!!

I hope I've helped.

+1000

 

[Join The Paul Side]

Oh, by the way, did I mention to find allies?

I can't stress enough the importance of doing this. You may find that Ron Paul Republicans are the minority. But with Huck or Romney allies you may be able to have the majority and possibly establish a quorum.

I will pray that you check this thread before you head out to the Convention. Heck, print this page and take it with you if ya have to.

 

[MozoVote]

Probably a little late now, to give him advice. But I can say from what I saw first hand at the NC convention yesterday:

Establish an order of priority if you are trying to modify the party platform. Begin with the easy ones and work your way to the "radical" stuff.

Get your people on the microphones! The more different voices stand up, the less it will look like a few "agitators" and you can widen your voting bloc.

Good luck!

 

[liberteebell]

Oh, by the way, did I mention to find allies?

I can't stress enough the importance of doing this. You may find that Ron Paul Republicans are the minority. But with Huck or Romney allies you may be able to have the majority and possibly establish a quorum.

I will pray that you check this thread before you head out to the Convention. Heck, print this page and take it with you if ya have to.

+2008

You will find allies in the most surprising places if you speak about principles as opposed to all Ron Paul, all the time. Lots of people are disgruntled with mcwarming.

Dress conservatively and be on your best behavior. Even if you don't "win" this battle (they're on to us, you know), you'll win respect for your conservative "credentials" and that's essential for our long-term goals.

Good luck from this native of Lexington, KY!!

 

[brooklyn]

Any news KY? Please keep us updated!! Stay strong!

 

[RonPaulGuyEastWA]

Good luck ! Stay strong and firm. Know your groups numbers and be persistent in calling for fairness for ALL. That is how you will swing others to our side. PERSISTANCE- Do not let them shut you up or close you out! To stay silent is to concede-Do not let them do this to you. There is no point mumbling to those next to you if you feel they are cheating or breaking rules, challenge them at every turn if they are breaking the rules.
Microphone position is extremely important so position your best speakers as close as possible and make sure they speak their mind.
Have your selected reps hold signs for everyone to see and vote yay or nay loudly and use Div of assembly when you think they are not calling the voting properly.
Good luck, we are pulling for you guys.
If you have the numbers in your favor, replace chair and take it all!

I second that microphone position is very important. There some young lackey in a 3-piece suit who was kneeling on the floor in front of my closest microphone just to intimidate others from speaking or making them think they had to "stand in line" to get their turn. If that happens, just cut in front of the person blocking the microphone and make your motion, point of order, or whatever you need to do.

If you think something sketchy is up and are having difficulty following, speak up and ask for a "point of information" or "point of clarification." You may get some "boos" from the folks trying to manipulate you, but many others (less vocal) will appreciate the clarification.

Bring a copy of the latest Robert's Rules of Order. At the WA convention a speaker was overruled when the chair broke rules. The chair referenced a page in Robert's Rules that had NOTHING to do with the current situation but since we didn't have the book to reference, we could not dispute it.

If you have the majority, TAKE THE CHAIR! We thought we elected a fair chair at our convention but after listening to audio online that the professional TV production picked up, we're not so sure he wasn't "advised" to help things go a certain way by the state party. There's not enough evidence to strongly accuse or convict, but it left many of us uneasy.

Also, don't let the "temporary chair" stay in very long. Elect a permanent chair ASAP. At ours the temporary chair was a liar and a cheat and after the McCain's campaign's bidding was done, THEN he offered to elect the permanent chair.

 

[Thomas Paine]

Good luck, buddy! Seeking advice at this late stage doesn't help but it reminds the rest of us to seek advice sooner. Let us know what transpired afterward.

 

[Join The Paul Side]

bump for updates

 

[RPTXState]

Bump- request update

 

[brooklyn]

C'mon KY- clue us in! We need an update!

 

[Carl H]

I would like to say thanks to all the Ron Paul people that I have met throughout Kentucky in the last year in the meetups and in Take back Kentucky. The desire to renew freedom in this country is strong in Kentucky. Even though we may have lost the battle today we will not give up and will continue to fight. On a positive note there were only 525 out of 2,678 delegates to show up so it should not be that hard to take over the party, if we can bring enough revolutionaries in the future.

The first time Erin tried to speak the chair said she was disruptive and called for her removal but Erin stood her ground and would not leave. They turned off and removed the microphones. They had everything decided and did what they wanted and that was to shut us down.
The Huck people have been in the party for some time and are afraid to go against Mitch. They toll the party line even though they claim they don't like Mcain, so there is no gaining support from them.

 

[spotics]

What I saw today was a convention run in a way that would make Hitler and Stalin proud.

When we tried to propose amendments they would not recognize us. They cut off our microphone. The chair would shout us down, or ignore us.

Even if we had the numbers I am not convinced we could have done anything. The chair clearly violates the rules and prevented us from participating.

 

[mudburn]

It was a well-orchestrated ramrodding of the RKP's wishes at the convention today. The agenda specified time limits for each of the business items: Credentials Report -- 20 min, Rules Committee Report -- 5 min, Permanent Organization Committee report -- 5 min, Nominations committee Report -- 15 min, and Resolutions Committee Report -- 20 min. 65 minutes allocated for all of the business to be conducted at the convention and a couple of hours of listening to Republican cheerleaders (congressmen and candidates) tell us how bad the Democrats and Obama are and that we should love John McCain.

The agenda with time limits was used to preclude any debate, amendments, and points of order. On the rules, the chair forced a vote while ignoring points of order because "we only have 5 minutes for this item and that time is up." He said several times that the agenda was approved unanimously, but the delegates never voted on approval of the agenda. The chair never truly recognized anyone -- he talked over them or ignored them even if he said the person was recognized. The chair dismissed points of order by saying the persons making them were being "dilatory" without allowing the points to be made.

They didn't want any debate or discussion of any sort. When the chair told the sergeants at arms to remove Erin from the mic when she stood her ground calling a point of order, they took the microphone away and did not allow anyone to speak, not just Erin. All debate and discussion was effectively silenced. Sadly, the majority of the delegates seemed to want no debate and wished to just complete their job of rubber stamping the party bosses' wishes.

There was no debate at all on the resolutions, either. We were all given a packet of 19 resolutions. Some were good, some were bad. The vote on the resolutions was to accept all 19 or not without debate or individual consideration.

So, effectively, the RPK took $20 from each of the delegates ($10,500 from the seated delegates today) so that we could sit quietly and vote they way they wanted us to without being involved in any meaningful way. Sadly, most of the delegates seemed to want it that way.

dp

 

[TheTyke]

I'm going to chime in here. I've never seen anything like it in the videos I've watched online - after about 3 or so valid points of order and information, the chair says the points and motions are "dilatory", and pretty much closed the floor to any further comments/points etc. The floor mics went off, and the sergeants at arms were instructed to remove one girl who persisted on her points of order (she was not successfully removed, as the sergeants were challenged by bystanders and backed down.) The chair rolled the meeting on over hollers from the floor. I estimate we had 150+ out of 525 delegates there, but short of using physical force, there was no way we could conduct any business. Some resisted vocally, others took a passive stance. I kind of favored everyone speaking out - silence suggests no opposition - and if only a few resist, it looks like a distinct minority. In any case, with ignoring of the rules, either technique would be a complete loss. The only fault I saw in our case was that the chair asked if we wanted to appeal the chair's decision (although it wasn't clear which decision, or if it were all at once...)

I asked several others about holding a rump convention as this thread suggests, but none seemed inclined or had the expertise. We all were shell-shocked I think - we spent the last several weeks studying Robert's Rules and holding strategy meetings... only to have them ignored all together.

Some Huckabee supporters said "we should be ashamed of ourselves" afterwards... but I think the chairman and speakers should be ashamed of themselves... falsely claiming McCain as being pro-life, and that he'd take care of the troops.. then talking about God's guidance. Although I agreed with some of his "talking points", as a Catholic myself, I found it completely hypocritical.

There are bright sides though. There were reporters interviewing delegates afterwards. I have an audio recording (I have to cut it down - I recorded 3.5 hours of convention & conversation) from the middle of the action, and there are rumors of video recordings floating around. Let's hope it goes viral!

And last but not least, a decorated military man came and thanked the girl they tried to eject. He said he was glad she had stood up and that he hadn't fought in wars so that things like this convention could happen. (to parahprase)

 

[Join The Paul Side]

 

[Join The Paul Side]

I'm going to chime in here. I've never seen anything like it in the videos I've watched online - after about 3 or so valid points of order and information, the chair says the points and motions are "dilatory", and pretty much closed the floor to any further comments/points etc. The floor mics went off, and the sergeants at arms were instructed to remove one girl who persisted on her points of order (she was not successfully removed, as the sergeants were challenged by bystanders and backed down.) The chair rolled the meeting on over hollers from the floor. I estimate we had 150+ out of 525 delegates there, but short of using physical force, there was no way we could conduct any business. Some resisted vocally, others took a passive stance. I kind of favored everyone speaking out - silence suggests no opposition - and if only a few resist, it looks like a distinct minority. In any case, with ignoring of the rules, either technique would be a complete loss. The only fault I saw in our case was that the chair asked if we wanted to appeal the chair's decision (although it wasn't clear which decision, or if it were all at once...)

I asked several others about holding a rump convention as this thread suggests, but none seemed inclined or had the expertise. We all were shell-shocked I think - we spent the last several weeks studying Robert's Rules and holding strategy meetings... only to have them ignored all together.

Some Huckabee supporters said "we should be ashamed of ourselves" afterwards... but I think the chairman and speakers should be ashamed of themselves... falsely claiming McCain as being pro-life, and that he'd take care of the troops.. then talking about God's guidance. Although I agreed with some of his "talking points", as a Catholic myself, I found it completely hypocritical.

There are bright sides though. There were reporters interviewing delegates afterwards. I have an audio recording (I have to cut it down - I recorded 3.5 hours of convention & conversation) from the middle of the action, and there are rumors of video recordings floating around. Let's hope it goes viral!

And last but not least, a decorated military man came and thanked the girl they tried to eject. He said he was glad she had stood up and that he hadn't fought in wars so that things like this convention could happen. (to parahprase)

Thanks for trying.