Issue: Elections: Electronic Voting

[Mr. Green]

I truly believe that there is a very real possibility that Ron Paul's support may become irrelevant if the votes are not counted correctly.

In the film, America: Freedom to Facism ( www.freedomtofacism.com ), there is footage of Clinton Eugene Curtis, a computer programmer, testifying that he wrote a prototype for Jeb Bush's running mate, Tom Feeney, that could secretly rig an election by automatically flipping the results 51-49 for whoever you wanted to win.

Elections officials could not detect it without viewing the source code or without comparing some sort of reciept on hard paper with the actual vote total.

As it stands right now, voting machine manufactures refuse to allow anyone to see the source code and without paper ballots, the honesty of any election cannot be verified.

Here are a few quotes from the movie that reinforce the point.

"Integrity of 2006 elections cannot be ensured"
-Government Accountability Office

"2004 Ohio Precinct exit poll data shows virtually irrefutable evidence of vote miscount."
-National Election Data Archive

"Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything."
-Josef Stalin
Russian Dictator

So I urge everyone who sees this to do everything in their power to abolish electronic voting in the state they live.

In addition, anybody with information on how this can be done or information on any petitions to achieve this goal of an honest election nexy year, or anything else to say, PLEASE post here.

 

[fsk]

What's the point of voting if the results can be easily faked?

Even paper ballots can be abused. With a secret ballot, how can you know if your vote was discarded? How can you know if dead people voted?

The only way to have a 100% tamper-proof vote is to publish a list of who voted for whom.

 

[Mr. Green]

What's the point of voting if the results can be easily faked?

Even paper ballots can be abused. With a secret ballot, how can you know if your vote was discarded? How can you know if dead people voted?

The only way to have a 100% tamper-proof vote is to publish a list of who voted for whom.

The way they did it in the old days was for a supporter of each candidate would count every reciept and they couldn't go home until everyone agreed.

I would take that over electronic voting that has been proven to be rigged in the past any day.

 

[Gee]

Here is any easy way to fix it: Use open-source voting software and have it generate a list of SSNs and how they voted. We shouldn't hamstring ourselves with old technology when the new stuff can be made more difficult to defraud, if only people would put some effort in...

 

[Mr. Green]

Here is any easy way to fix it: Use open-source voting software and have it generate a list of SSNs and how they voted. We shouldn't hamstring ourselves with old technology when the new stuff can be made more difficult to defraud, if only people would put some effort in...

That makes perfect sense, but it's the manufactures themselves who do not allow this to happen, and it would be a lot harder for the people to effect the policy of private companies than for the people to effect the policy of they're local government.

Hopefully...

 

[CJLauderdale4]

Lot of ways to solve this. No one is thinking clearly on this (but us, the American people). I like the SSN veririfcation system - one SSN (of an alive US Citizen) - one vote.

Meanwhile, I'll be voting with hanging chads again next year (from what I hear)...

 

[Mr. Green]

I just don't like the remaining possibility that even though a SSN is recorded, the actual way a person votes may still be tampered with. It is much harder to tamper with a hard copy.

And just a little update: I just e-mailed my Mayor, Governor, both Senators, and the Congressman of my district voicing my concerns. I'm going to wait for some responses and then go from there.

 

[angrydragon]

Here is any easy way to fix it: Use open-source voting software and have it generate a list of SSNs and how they voted. We shouldn't hamstring ourselves with old technology when the new stuff can be made more difficult to defraud, if only people would put some effort in...

I like this idea, maybe mix in a random verification where candidates or someone can call to confirm the voter voted the way they did.

Hopefully we'll do away with SSN's after Ron is President.

 

[fsk]

You could assign each voter a unique ID# when they vote, and they could use it to look up the result afterwards.

Searching for a better method is pointless anyway. Anonymous voting and electronic voting aren't going away, precisely because they are abusable.

It's pretty trivial to design a non-abusable electronic voting system. The buyers of such a system, the politicians, have no incentive for implementing a fair voting system.

 

[RonPaul4President]

The Republicans should be up in arms about this. We all know it's the Democrats that seek the illegal votes through illegal immigration. It will be a sad day when we see fellow Republican Senators likes McCain flip-flop to the dark side to get the illegal vote--re: last GOP debate.

Here are my suggestions for fair voting:

• No online registration. Period.
• You must register in person. Set up voter registration rallies.
• Thumbprint and signature for ID validation. No card is presented to the voter.
• When they vote their thumbprint is taken and their signature given. This information is compared with their registration data.
• For those unable to offer fingerprints another method will be required.
• Drivers license is not practical due to the availability of fakes. Any form of "voter card" invites fraud.
• Online database where voters can log on to verify their vote. Their SSN and receipt number are their login info. This is NOT the same database used to count or call the election.
• Voting employees/volunteers must have an FBI background check and they MUST be U.S. citizens that have sworn an oath.
• There must be a receipt given to each voter with their choices on it. These receipts cannot be used for an official recount due to possible fraud.

This doesn't solve the "how do I know my vote wasn't tampered with" problem, but it does address most front-end issues.

 

[Gee]

That makes perfect sense, but it's the manufactures themselves who do not allow this to happen, and it would be a lot harder for the people to effect the policy of private companies than for the people to effect the policy of they're local government.

Only when those private companies are given exclusive government contracts, i.e. monopolies. Sadly the invisible hand of politics rarely lends itself to the public good.

 

[RonPaul4President]

The only way to have a 100% tamper-proof vote is to publish a list of who voted for whom.

I agree.

 

[angelatc]

I do not like the idea of the government knowing who I voted for.

I like the idea of a paper print-out showing who I voted for being deposited into a container, by me, after I verify it. Then the electronic ballot tally should match a manual count of the slips. The key, of course, is posession of the box containing the slips.

 

[Mr. Green]

I do not like the idea of the government knowing who I voted for.

I like the idea of a paper print-out showing who I voted for being deposited into a container, by me, after I verify it. Then the electronic ballot tally should match a manual count of the slips. The key, of course, is posession of the box containing the slips.

And if the slips are both counted by a rep and dem who must count until they come up with the same numbers, that would limit the ability to miscount. That seems like the most easily achieved and cost efficient method.

I really like the idea of being able to verify how your vote was counted also.

Thank you to everyone who is listing ideas! I am going to throw almost all of these at my state reps pretty soon. Keep it up!

 

[angrydragon]

How about a real-time counter? One for the local precinct, one for the city or county, one for the state and one for national. All the counters get updated in real-time after a vote is completed. Results can be shown at the local precincts, online and on tv.

 

[Mr. Green]

I really like that idea a lot, angrydragon.

The only reason to merit NOT doing something like that is the potential cost (which may not even be that much). But hey, it's a republic and for a republic to truly work, everybody's vote has to count!

 

[TrueGenius]

And if the slips are both counted by a rep and dem who must count until they come up with the same numbers, that would limit the ability to miscount. That seems like the most easily achieved and cost efficient method.

I really like the idea of being able to verify how your vote was counted also.

Thank you to everyone who is listing ideas! I am going to throw almost all of these at my state reps pretty soon. Keep it up!

I really like the idea of being able to verify my vote and that it was counted. The way we currently vote in Arizona is that we make a black line across linking the candidate to the office and then it is put through a scanner. I get a receipt that I have voted, but the receipt does not indicate my votes. I would really like to see this implemented and verified by me personally before I walk out the door.

 

[X_805]

How about a real-time counter? One for the local precinct, one for the city or county, one for the state and one for national. All the counters get updated in real-time after a vote is completed. Results can be shown at the local precincts, online and on tv.

This presents a HUGE problem. You know how many people like to vote for "the winner"? This would just aggravate that problem to the extreme. It sounds good at first, but I would rather not have any published numbers until all the votes are made.

 

[angrydragon]

Well maybe it could be made for viewing just for the candidates and their staff.

 

[LRitz]

Exactly.....I like this idea

I do not like the idea of the government knowing who I voted for.

I like the idea of a paper print-out showing who I voted for being deposited into a container, by me, after I verify it. Then the electronic ballot tally should match a manual count of the slips. The key, of course, is posession of the box containing the slips.

My husband and I were just discussing this exact same thing last night.
The voters gets a printout tally of their votes after voting. After they check their selections, it it dropped into a box.

This issue has been bothering me....We've got electronic voting here where I live and we need to deal with this issue if we really expect Ron Paul to win.