I need help in a debate

[ClayTrainor]

I need help in a debate about ron paul having "NO HOPE IN HELL!"

My debate skills are a little weak. Im having an argument with someone on another forum about how ron paul does have a chance to win the rep. nomination.

this is the last post by my opposition.

The Ron Paul trend is very similar to the small group of people who exchange 9-11 conspiracy theories. The numbers of actual people are infinitesimal when compared to the general populous. However, both the 9-11 nutjobs and the Ron Paul supporters delude themselves into thinking they are actually significant due to the fact that they spend the majority of their time commiserating online with others of their ilk.

Much of the Internet is fantasy land.

some of you guys are great at raising amazing points, i really want some input to help me out... thanks

I want to tell him how it's not just the internet... how the movement can be seen all over america, but im not sure how to say it best.

 

[ClayTrainor]

bump...

please?

 

[me3]

No one cares. Debates don't win elections, votes and fund raising do.

 

[ClayTrainor]

No one cares. Debates don't win elections, votes and fund raising do.

oh c'mon... obviously every little thing can help.

people read forums, and base their opinions on what they read u know.

i've donated significant amounts of money to RP's campaign... i just support him from every angle i can... not just the ones u say matter

anyways... off topic

can anyone give me a few killer counter points please?

 

[nullvalu]

I'd point out that the 9/11 truther croud is just a small portion of ron paul supporters, they just happen to be extremely vocal.

If he likes Ron Paul's ideas but just doens't want to support him because of his chances, I'd just say that if everyone who thought like you do would actually just support him - we would have enough support to get him elected. That has made people stop in their tracks and really think about it doing something.

 

[demosthenes]

Online numbers are hard to gauge, and you could really make any assumptions about any candidates followers without any way to prove or disprove it. I would just point out the increasing media attention, and worldwide exposure hes been getting. Every day on my campus i see more and more people wearing Ron Paul gear, writing "Ron Paul 2008 Google Him" on the sidewalks and tons more examples. Even when i wear my gear to go to the grocery store people will ask me "Who is this Ron Paul guy? I keep hearing about him"

I don't think you cant really deny his support, and that if you are really looking for physical evidence of it, wait till election day. Until then, we Paul supporters will stay on the grind keep spreading his message.

 

[demosthenes]

No one cares. Debates don't win elections, votes and fund raising do.

I think this is false, everything helps.

 

[Kregener]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/fisk/fisk19.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/roberts-j1.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/bock4.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/mafaldo1.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/murphy/murphy123.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/015637.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north576.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/016060.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/012378.html

Etc., etc., etc...

You have some reading to do.

 

[me3]

I think this is false, everything helps.

Is everything equally helpful? I'm not into promoting forum or blog flame wars over Ron Paul. It's not going to stuff the ballot box.

So when someone posts in the grassroots forum, "help me win an argument on another forum", i just think about all of the activism and fund raising threads getting bumped down for no good reason.

 

[CodeMonkey]

Point to the massive list of straw polls as a start.

Republican party has been hemorrhaging members and those remaining are pretty apathetic because of the mess Bush made. When people have to get off their sofa and drive a couple hours to vote, Ron Paul supporters most willing to do that by far.

 

[TVMH]

I would ignore this guy, but not before pointing out that he is engaging in ad hominem attacks.

You might also point out that the "internets" are not merely a passing fad...ask him if all the sites he frequents are based on fantasy, then leave it alone.

 

[ClayTrainor]

Is everything equally helpful? I'm not into promoting forum or blog flame wars over Ron Paul. It's not going to stuff the ballot box.

So when someone posts in the grassroots forum, "help me win an argument on another forum", i just think about all of the activism and fund raising threads getting bumped down for no good reason.

it's not a flame war at all... it's a respectable debate.

and awesome points people... i used those links and told him to read up, and also explained how the internet is not a passing fad, and represents nothing but free speech.

this debate is going very far i dont think, but i appreciate u guys lending me a hand to stick a few points to this guy.

 

[TVMH]

it's not a flame war at all... it's a respectable debate.

There is nothing respectable about resorting to ad hominem attacks; A/H attacks are the tools of intellectual cowards.

 

[ClayTrainor]

There is nothing respectable about resorting to ad hominem attacks; A/H attacks are the tools of intellectual cowards.

haha okay true.

but, i do respect this guy, and he genuinely feels this way, so why not have a debate?

we must respect our opponents if they respect us, and i know he does, he's just expressing his views.

 

[rdenner]

Give him historic perspective.

I for one have won people over by pointing to the fact that in March 2007 NO ONE EVER HEARD OF RON PAUL.

We started at essencially ZERO and have built this from the ground up. I'd also agree with him that WE ARE NOT ANYWHERE NEAR THE MAJORITY......YET...

At best we are polling maybe 7 to 9% realistically nationally(5% on major focus groups that half the time don't even mention Ron Paul on the first page).

It's best to partially agree with someone you're arguing with.

If he says "I'd support Ron Paul if he were in any way electable, but he isn't so I'm supporting Rudy".

You would counter NOT WITH THIS "BUT That's stupid!! Ron Paul can win, jesus how can you support Rudy, he's a fucking fascists!!".

But with THIS "I agree to a point. Sure Ron Paul isn't Rudy or Clinton popular YET... But man I was here at the begining back in March, AND NO ONE and I Mean no one had ever heard of Ron Paul. NOW LOOK AT US. In 5 or 6 months we have gone from making 300k in AN ENTIRE QUARTER to making more than that in less than 48 FREAKING HOURS, that is a growth pattern. And it's one that I'm incredibly excited to be a part of. I would rather support someone I believe in that has a small chance of winning, than selling out and supporting someone JUST BECAUSE they might win. Ron Paul might be a longshot, but he does have a shot. It's not like I'm supporting Mike Gravel or something. Ron Paul has real support and it's growing by the day"

Or just tell him to fuck off and flame him out.. Your choice...

Robert

 

[rp4prez]

I would ask him to source his facts. More than likely he won't be able to. He'll then resort to calling you names etc blah blah. But stick to your guns and continue to ask him to source his facts to you that prove his points. Make sure you have your facts right as well and freely source them. Be prepared for them to discredit your sources so make sure you know your source's background etc and be prepared to defend them. Lastly if he doesn't have any sources you can always argue that he doesn't know what he's talking about if he can't provide anything. If he does and all it is a google search you can blast him on that as well. Don't forget to research his sources as well if he does cite something and discredit them as well.

Debates are fun! Don't get discouraged when people think they know stuff when they really don't. It's easy to make them look stupid if you stick to your guns and ask them for information that molded their opinion. What I've found is most people can't do this and the smarter people will notice and write off the guy as stupid. Unless of course you are on a forum where everyone believes what he says then you'll probably be attacked by everyone and all of them will show their ignorance. It's happened to me at several forums. I just laugh at them and usually point out to them that they really should cite their sources if they want to be taken seriously by anyone who really wants to debate.

Hope that helps!

 

[ClayTrainor]

Wow, awesome, thanks everyone

 

[rp4prez]

But with THIS "I agree to a point. Sure Ron Paul isn't Rudy or Clinton popular YET... But man I was here at the begining back in March, AND NO ONE and I Mean no one had ever heard of Ron Paul. NOW LOOK AT US. In 5 or 6 months we have gone from making 300k in AN ENTIRE QUARTER to making more than that in less than 48 FREAKING HOURS, that is a growth pattern. And it's one that I'm incredibly excited to be a part of. I would rather support someone I believe in that has a small chance of winning, than selling out and supporting someone JUST BECAUSE they might win. Ron Paul might be a longshot, but he does have a shot. It's not like I'm supporting Mike Gravel or something. Ron Paul has real support and it's growing by the day"

This is a really good come back. But MAKE SURE to source all these numbers! Otherwise it will mean nothing to them. They will blow you off. If you can get multiple sources for these numbers it would be much better to support your argument.