I have nothing to hide...

[Slist]

Hi,
I have a question to the many bright people on this forum. When privacy is under attack by new laws I often am confronted with the sad "I have nothing to hide so I'm all for it" (for instance biometric passports here in switzerland) argument.

I really need some points... what do you say to someone with this frame of mind? How do you convince them? My only example is the rwandan genocide which could be carried out so effectively thanks to the presence of passports and government records.

Thanks for your comments!

 

[Minarchy4Sale]

Douche "I have nothing to hide"

You "What happens when you do?"

If the person you are speaking with is so out of touch with reality that they cannot contemplate a time when innocent people may be slaughtered by the millions for being the wrong color, race, having the wrong education, etc., when it has happened REPEATEDLY in the 20th Century.... They are beyond your help, and deserve whatever happens to them.

 

[Conza88]

You show them this.

YouTube - Don't Be a Sucker - 1947

 

[Dary]

... I often am confronted with the sad "I have nothing to hide so I'm all for it"

... what do you say to someone with this frame of mind?

What I always say is, If you don't have anything to hide, then don't you have an even greater reason to be left alone?

 

[Bobster]

what i always say is, if you don't have anything to hide, then don't you have an even greater reason to be left alone?

+1776

 

[pacelli]

Hi,
I have a question to the many bright people on this forum. When privacy is under attack by new laws I often am confronted with the sad "I have nothing to hide so I'm all for it" (for instance biometric passports here in switzerland) argument.

I really need some points... what do you say to someone with this frame of mind? How do you convince them? My only example is the rwandan genocide which could be carried out so effectively thanks to the presence of passports and government records.

Thanks for your comments!

I have something to hide. It's called my privacy. If I told you what it was that I am trying to hide, then it wouldn't be private.

 

[acptulsa]

Then why aren't you naked?

At the risk of being accused of obeying Godwin's law, the Jews in Germany in 1933 had nothing to hide, either. Five years later they did. Of course, the next thing you'll hear is, 'That can't happen here.' Oh really? Wish I had your faith...

 

[diggronpaul]

Hi,
I have a question to the many bright people on this forum. When privacy is under attack by new laws I often am confronted with the sad "I have nothing to hide so I'm all for it" (for instance biometric passports here in switzerland) argument.

The question is NOT about whether the citizen has something to hide or not, the question is about whether those that want the private information have any right to it or not. You see, they are framing the question so that it puts the citizen on the defensive. This is deliberate. So, what you need to do is ask the person, who is saying that they have nothing to hide, where do they think that:

• the government gets the power to collect and possess such information?
• why does the government have the right to collect this type of information?
• and what do they think the government with do with this information?
• and why does the government need this information in the first place?

Now, these questions are much more relevant and appropriate.

YouTube - Don't Be a Sucker - 1947

Fantastic find... thanks for posting.

 

[klamath]

Hi,
I have a question to the many bright people on this forum. When privacy is under attack by new laws I often am confronted with the sad "I have nothing to hide so I'm all for it" (for instance biometric passports here in switzerland) argument.

I really need some points... what do you say to someone with this frame of mind? How do you convince them? My only example is the rwandan genocide which could be carried out so effectively thanks to the presence of passports and government records.

Thanks for your comments!

Though this is based on American laws I have been floating this idea around to see how much interest there is for this to try and make people that think they have nothing to hide see just how wrong they are. Below is the idea from the thread I started on this.

An idea has been floating around in my head for a while for an effective Utube video to show the rank and file Americans how DHS and agencies like it are wrong.
How many times have you heard the statement, "if you're are not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about!"

A video filmed of the ordinary American family on an oridinary day of their life. Follow this film with the clips showing the every spot and action that is breaking a federal, state or local law or regulation. Specify the exact code violation at every spot.
At the end add up the violations and penalties and show how much jail time and fines they would be sentenced. In some states with laws like california with 3 strikes law it could be pretty severe.
I am not talking about the more rebellious Americans. I want a flag waving American family that tries to obay all laws.
A starting list.
A moving vehicle before the seat belt is on.
Failing to make a complete stop at a stop sign.
breaking the speed limits. Each count.
Having child facing the wrong way in a safety seat.
Throwing batteries in the trash.
Kid riding a bike without a helmet before the parent spots it.
Burning a wood stove on a no burn day.
Putting gas for the lawn mower in the wrong kind of container.
This list could go on forever.

An alternative would be to have people watch the video and try and pick out the laws broken then show how many really were broken.
A good prosecuter could make this family look like the worst criminals out there.
Many americans plead guilty to charges they should rightfully fight because a prosecuter tells them "look I can get you for all these charges and you will spend twenty years in prison or you can plead guilty and get probation?" Most Americans get a mental image of Bubba in prison and plead guilty.
If some of the good Utube makers did this I think it could go viral.

 

[JP2010]

Hi,
I have a question to the many bright people on this forum. When privacy is under attack by new laws I often am confronted with the sad "I have nothing to hide so I'm all for it" (for instance biometric passports here in switzerland) argument.

I really need some points... what do you say to someone with this frame of mind? How do you convince them? My only example is the rwandan genocide which could be carried out so effectively thanks to the presence of passports and government records.

Thanks for your comments!

One rebuttal I always liked was "If you have nothing to hide, then you don't mind if I open your mail everyday before you get it"

 

[diggronpaul]

Though this is based on American laws I have been floating this idea around to see how much interest there is for this to try and make people that think they have nothing to hide see just how wrong they are. Below is the idea from the thread I started on this.

I would add one more concept that could be a theme throughout the entire video.... and that is the idea that once data is collected on a citizen that data can be sent to anywhere and controlled by anyone. So, say that all of this data is sent to Chinese data centers where Chinese workers make determinations about your ability to obtain a loan, your ability to obtain a drivers license, how much you will pay in insurance, whether you can travel to a given city based upon your "terrorist-rating"... etc. I think you get the idea.

Talk about a takeover of a country..... just imagine all of our data in the hands of a hostile Communist country. Is that what you really want, because that is exactly what they will do with all this data they are collecting.

 

[mczerone]

Hi,
I have a question to the many bright people on this forum. When privacy is under attack by new laws I often am confronted with the sad "I have nothing to hide so I'm all for it" (for instance biometric passports here in switzerland) argument.

I really need some points... what do you say to someone with this frame of mind? How do you convince them? My only example is the rwandan genocide which could be carried out so effectively thanks to the presence of passports and government records.

Thanks for your comments!

Nobody has "nothing to hide." As every Christian knows - everybody is a "sinner". Whether it is an unsubstantial white lie that you told to a coworker, their income, an affair, possession of a substance that you know the police doesn't approve of, or even something criminal - everybody has something that they would rather keep hidden.

It's not about having nothing to hide - its about being free from the costs and stresses of knowing that you will have to explain every single item in your possession, and every action that you make in a way that is satisfactory to some thug, that has direct orders to not let anything "suspicious" get by him. So they have incentive to search everything without discretion, and when presented with this situation it is less costly for a citizen to go along with the search than to object to it, whether they have anything to hide or not.

The solution to this problem is to not allow the police to search without some probable cause or other standard under which only those situations where danger is imminent allow a search - it keeps the costs of submission and the costs of searching at a minimum while allowing for actual crime prevention or investigation into a crime already committed.

So, if you get the response that someone is okay with it because they have "nothing to hide" - ask them to go on that polygraph show and really prove it, and only then will allowing these searches be justified by their subjective notions.

 

[rbu]

Ask them why they wear clothes. Are they hiding something by wearing them? If no one has anything to hide then why bother with clothes at all?

 

[UtahApocalypse]

Though this is based on American laws I have been floating this idea around to see how much interest there is for this to try and make people that think they have nothing to hide see just how wrong they are. Below is the idea from the thread I started on this.

An idea has been floating around in my head for a while for an effective Utube video to show the rank and file Americans how DHS and agencies like it are wrong.
How many times have you heard the statement, "if you're are not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about!"

A video filmed of the ordinary American family on an oridinary day of their life. Follow this film with the clips showing the every spot and action that is breaking a federal, state or local law or regulation. Specify the exact code violation at every spot.
At the end add up the violations and penalties and show how much jail time and fines they would be sentenced. In some states with laws like california with 3 strikes law it could be pretty severe.
I am not talking about the more rebellious Americans. I want a flag waving American family that tries to obay all laws.
A starting list.
A moving vehicle before the seat belt is on.
Failing to make a complete stop at a stop sign.
breaking the speed limits. Each count.
Having child facing the wrong way in a safety seat.
Throwing batteries in the trash.
Kid riding a bike without a helmet before the parent spots it.
Burning a wood stove on a no burn day.
Putting gas for the lawn mower in the wrong kind of container.
This list could go on forever.

An alternative would be to have people watch the video and try and pick out the laws broken then show how many really were broken.
A good prosecuter could make this family look like the worst criminals out there.
Many americans plead guilty to charges they should rightfully fight because a prosecuter tells them "look I can get you for all these charges and you will spend twenty years in prison or you can plead guilty and get probation?" Most Americans get a mental image of Bubba in prison and plead guilty.
If some of the good Utube makers did this I think it could go viral.

This would be awesome! Lets start a script and story board.

 

[Icymudpuppy]

"Do you think that we want those laws to be observed? We want them broken. There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power the government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."

-Dr. Ferris in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged

 

[diggronpaul]

It is irrelevant whether you have anything to hide or not, the question
is does anyone else have the right to know.

 

[Elwar]

Do you own a gun?

Some day, that may be something you'll want to hide.