How should I explain Paul's more extreme libertarian positions...

[lilymc]

Ok, I hate to resurrect this thread, especially after that embarrassing facebook exchange I posted (which is actually from another neocon guy I know, not the one mentioned in the OP)

But I have to ask a question, and I didn't want to create a new thread just for this question.

The first guy is now saying (yelling, ranting) a bunch of things on FR about Ron Paul that sound as horrible as it gets, and I wanted to find out what was a lie/distortion/half-truth and what was actually true.

Here's what he's saying now:

Ron Paul SUPPORTS NAMBLA

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=141047311&page=1
http://videosift.com/video/Does-Ron-Paul-Support-NAMBLA-Well-yes-and-no
http://www.dailypaul.com/70100/age-of-consent?page=1

Obviously it's a lie that RP would support pedophilia, but I just wanted to get to the actual truth here on things like age of consent, and that horrible organization, etc. Thanks.

 

[moonshineplease]

All I see are a bunch of poorly constructed Straw man and guilt by association fallacies. Lol, Was that guy seriously demanding you repent…you cant really have a rational debate of substance with someone like that. So he went sifting through posts on the DP that are four years old? He’s just grasping for any potential straws- and making an ass of himself in the process. The Video you posted was set as private, but honestly I wouldn’t even bother wasting time with that guy.

 

[Dianne]

Paul has no extreme ideas about anything... He is the least extreme candidate running... Constitution... you have a right to live, you have a right to protect your family, you have a right to choose your own lifestyle, you have a right to reap what you sow, you have a right to feed your family, you have a right to defend your family.

How is that extreme? The other candidates are extreme... they take your money, and use it to fund their lobbyists... who then in turn, return the money to their campaigns.. basically stealing taxpayer dollars to fund their own campaigns... the rest they use to go murder people around the globe.. so every dollar you pay in taxes, might be the same dollars used to murder innocent women and children... at the same time they are supplying arms to the Mexican Drug Cartels, and earning billions in their personal bank accounts for dealing drugs. They want to take your guns away, so the cartels and american military are the only arms in Ameria... you think Ron Paul is extreme? Someone better wake up, and wake up fast !!

 

[Icymudpuppy]

 

[lilymc]

All I see are a bunch of poorly constructed Straw man and guilt by association fallacies. Lol, Was that guy seriously demanding you repent…you cant really have a rational debate of substance with someone like that. So he went sifting through posts on the DP that are four years old? He’s just grasping for any potential straws- and making an ass of himself in the process. The Video you posted was set as private, but honestly I wouldn’t even bother wasting time with that guy.

Well, I don't want to deal with him anymore, but he has been posting to me on FR and if I don't respond to his "NAMBLA" accusation, it might make him think that he is right or that I have no reply. Lies like that (which other people can read, since it's a big site) can turn many people away, so I feel a responsibility to correct them and refute the smears. But I wasn't clear on RP's position on the age of consent thing... or how his latest smear even originated.

As for the repent thing... that was another guy (who has the same exact views) and yes, he was serious. He seems to have gone off the deep end, but I shouldn't have responded to him in anger, I should've either ignored him or replied with a different tone. Anyway, I guess to him I'm like the 'enemy' now, and he seems to think I've gone over to the "dark side." haha Thanks moonshine.

Paul has no extreme ideas about anything... He is the least extreme candidate running... Constitution... you have a right to live, you have a right to protect your family, you have a right to choose your own lifestyle, you have a right to reap what you sow, you have a right to feed your family, you have a right to defend your family.

How is that extreme? The other candidates are extreme... they take your money, and use it to fund their lobbyists... who then in turn, return the money to their campaigns.. basically stealing taxpayer dollars to fund their own campaigns... the rest they use to go murder people around the globe.. so every dollar you pay in taxes, might be the same dollars used to murder innocent women and children... at the same time they are supplying arms to the Mexican Drug Cartels, and earning billions in their personal bank accounts for dealing drugs. They want to take your guns away, so the cartels and american military are the only arms in Ameria... you think Ron Paul is extreme? Someone better wake up, and wake up fast !!

I agree with you, but I'm talking about what strong social conservatives think.... they think that he wants to legalize even hard drugs, so from their perspective, it's 'extreme' to support the legalization of drugs like heroin, etc.

Heh, I love that quote. Thanks.

 

[presence]

The government's job is to defend our freedom of choice.

Religion's job is to help us make better choices.

Just because one defends someone's freedom of choice doesn't mean they endorse their choices.

The right to one's freedom of religion is preserved by this same principle of individual liberty.

"Liberty... is the great parent of science and of virtue; and a nation will be great in both always in proportion as it is free." []
"No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another, and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him." --Thomas Jefferson

Free agency is a gift from our Creator, our Constituion and the liberty it stands for defends that gift.

 

[fisharmor]

...So I post a photo on my facebook wall (the one of Ron and Rand in the 60's)

Your friends are not Christians.

 

[griblets]

I just want to say thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. I've been trying to win over my family for 4 years, and have made no progress. With the some of the wonderful posts here, and Voddie Bauchman's "Why Ron Paul," I've made another attempt to appeal to their Christianity. If this doesn't work, I don't think there's anything more that I could do to persuade them. Let's hope they get it after this.

"Why Ron Paul" - http://www.gracefamilybaptist.net/voddie-baucham-ministries/blog/why-ron-paul-2012-01/

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Easy: lean to a "State's Rights" argument. Tell them that Ron Paul simply believes that the Federal Government shouldn't be involved in spending all of this money on the War on Drugs, etc. - it should be left up to the States to decide.

Yes, Ron Paul honestly believes that most if not all drugs should be legal, and I don't necessarily agree with that completely (having known someone killed in a car accident by a high driver), but from his position as President, he would simply allow the States to decide what they want for their residents, and not take tax dollars from folks to run a Federal bureaucracy that is inept and wasteful.

When making that argument, keep in mind that there are generations of people out there who have been taught that States' rights don't exist, and that issue was "settled" by the Civil War. Lots of propaganda out there to push back against.

 

[acptulsa]

Two words: States' rights. If you don't like what your state makes legal, move.

'I do verily believe that..a single, consolidated government would become the most corrupt government on the earth.' --Thomas Jefferson to Gideon Granger, 1800

 

[Kandilynn]

I think Dr. Paul said it best himself in the last debate when he said making laws will not help morality in this country.

 

[Paulitics 2011]

10th Amendment, States right's, federalism, etc.

 

[ronpaulhemp]

I'd use some of Ron Paul's own words to describe these "extreme policies"

Supporting freedom of choice is not endorsement. That's like saying if you support the fourth amendment you're for pornography. It's ridiculous. It's really a matter of who regulates these substances. The most effective regulation comes from the individual, church, and family; not from any law.

 

[John Liberty]

...to a very, VERY socially conservative, legalistic Christian, who is convinced that I need to repent for supporting Ron Paul.

This is a guy who I've known online for many years and I don't think he will EVER support Ron Paul, but I still want to know how to best respond to his objections and accusations. His view is that anyone who supports drug legalization, legal prostitution, gay marriage, etc, "supports sin." And therefore, since I support Ron Paul, I "support sin."

The reason that it's hard for me to respond to this is because I have always considered myself more of a conservative than a libertarian. So I've never been 100% convinced that things like legalization of hard drugs or legal prostitution are good ideas. But I don't have to agree with a candidate on 100% of the issues, and I think our country is so far gone in the wrong direction, that we absolutely need a pro-liberty, small-government, strict constitutionalist like Ron Paul, or we are finished.

I think there are lots of conservative Christians who we could convince, but the issues I mentioned above are things that turn some people away.

So any advice on how to respond to those objections would be greatly appreciated!

PS - I'm sorry if there have been numerous other threads on this topic already. (I saw some similar ones but I figured I'd start a new thread)

Hit him right where it hurts, in the religion: http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/christians-make-great-libertarians/

 

[Brett85]

I've never read a verse in the Bible that says that everything that's a sin should be a crime.