How do we sway the neo-cons?

[JayDee]

While driving to work today I seen that a large Ron Paul sign had been torn down yet the American flags next to it were still there.. It's not hard to imagine I'm sure..

I don't understand these neo-cons.. I know their arguments, Hell at one time I made the same arguments.. but they wont allow themselves to listen to reason.. They sit there and talk about the Constitution and the Patriot act in the same breath.. about upholding values and Rudy Giuliani in the very same sentence. They think Paul is a "wacky kook" because Shawn Hannity tells them so. They show nothing but true hate, and disdain for his supporters.

We need to stop arguing with these people and win them over.. but how? We don't have a lot of time left now and unfortunately we may need them. Most ARE patriots, I know they love their country.. but they are woefully misguided.

How do we help them?
Are you a neo-con convert.. what worked on you?

 

[noxagol]

Beat them lol. Seriously though, these people are unreachable. They are the 10-20% that think Bush is doing a good job.

 

[max]

Neo-conism is a cult. I mean that...seriously.

The only way to deprogram someone who has ben "Hannitized" is to do what relatives of cult members do.

You kidnap them, isolate them, and break them psychologically so you can rid them of their false beliefs and cure them. I'm not kidding.

Given that this is unrealistic (and illegal), the next best thing to do is mercilessly ridicule their beliefs and their heros.

I'm not talking about semi-open minded people who can still be reached with gentle persuasion and sound logic. ...I'm talking about those zombies who booed RP at the debate.

It's a tough sell...but thats all u can do.

 

[Bossobass]

I have taken to saying, never try to sell whiskey at an AA meeting.

Most neo-cons are those related to the industries that rake in huge profits from their philosophy. They are a relatively tiny minority of the American population, which is why they had to set up who would be Bush's opponents, and even then, had to blatantly deny voters their votes and rig the voting results to steal the White House.

They don't deserve the huge amount of traffic we often generate for their sites, which is to no avail and heaps ridicule on Ron Paul and his supporters at the same time.

I prefer to let them be told who to vote for and focus instead on the huge majority of potential voters who are not registered and don't vote because they feel there is no one worth voting for.

It's a much more rewarding endeavor with much higher returns to show apathetic, and therefore ignorant Americans that there is someone worth voting for who has the same ideals every thinking American longs to see in a US President.

Just my thoughts, FWIW.

Bosso

 

[sickmint79]

after you present the experts and books that fully support your views, ask them to show you theirs or if the only support they have is provided by fox news.

 

[RP4ME]

I think alot of neocons are not really neocons....tru neocons have the ultimate sinister agenda.....alot of these peopel have just gotten confused and think this neocon agenda is now as american as apple pie and Jesus....it is cult like....I think teh best peopel to reach out are the ex- neoconned - feel felt found ( and you have plenty of resouces to show what you have found) and all that is powerful......
It will work on some - if that is your sphere of infulence I wouldnt ignore it.....but dont try to sell them...educate and let them come to you.......start with an issue taht is Bipartsian - Civil liberties.or Constitution ( these are both as american as pie and jesus) ....or whatever and educate on that and then slip in - ya know there is on ecandidate that has an excellent voting record.

Also when you bring up an issue facing our country , paint the oicture of what it leads to if unchecked how its unconstitutional and what shoudl be done about it. Creat the pain. if there is no pain- no one will take action so hit them with an issue that will highlite the pain.....then giv ethem teh tonic water.


$5 please

 

[JayDee]

I think we will need them.. I swear next straw poll here I'm going to plop my ass down on a bench with the oldest, whitest, and meanest looking people I can find and say "So.. lets talk Ron Paul.."

I have a few points I use typically.. things like

The Patriot Act is easy to show its un-constitutional, I can do so quickly.

The argument that the war would be ok, if it were done in defense and I do not believe anyone out there still believes that Iraq was a threat to us.

The fact that we did not declare war. (I like this one because they will say, but we did! The constitution does not explain HOW to declare war.) -- and in reply the congress voted to give the president the authority to go to war if *HE* decided that it was necessary. This allows the Democrats in congress to evade *their* responsibility and it makes it Bush's war thus they also would need to take ownership of it. Then you can slip in that Paul proposed a declaration of war, and that it creates a clear solid goal.

I dont think you can fight with them and win.. I think you need to love them.. but damm its hard.

 

[Phenom24]

I'm sending out the link of Judge Napolitano (of Fox News) saying we need Ron Paul in office in 2008...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRukPp9Tq5k

 

[micahnelson]

I have taken to saying, never try to sell whiskey at an AA meeting.

Bosso

Not to be one of "those guys" but I think we can reach them with a specific tactic that we KNOW works on them. Fear.

Instead of making them fear some guys hiding in a cave on the other side of the world, why not make them fear something legitimate.

Global Economic Collapse. A simple explanation of the federal reserve system, the "petrodollar" and the likelyhood of economic depression that is soon coming could scare them into calling for a change to our economic policy- thus dislodging the irrational fear of terrorism. (I say irrational- more people die in bathtubs)

So, I would say AA Meetings are the perfect place to sell whiskey- we know they like to drink it, lets just make it our brand.

 

[jb4ronpaul]

Having been a neocon, it a matter of making them realize that our foreign policy is the biggest of the big government failures. Just get them to apply the same principles we apply to the rest of the government for foreign policy too. A short education in foreign policy history is a huge help.

 

[apropos]

Not a neocon, but I do support the war. Hopefully this will give some insight into convincing others to support Paul, regardless of their war stance.

The first thing that caused me to consider Paul was his stance on illegal immigration. I had heard his name tossed around with Tancredo and Duncan Hunter. That alone caused me to consider him 'one of the good guys'. Remember, almost 80% of the country is opposed to the illegal immigration situation we currently face.

I think he said once he would get us out of NAFTA and bring back all those jobs we lost to Mexico and India. That was a vague impression I got once, and as someone who has seen many factories close down, that really appealed to me.

Then I learned about the IRS stance, which really got me interested. You just don't expect to hear that from a politician. It removed the normal cynicism and caused me to search him out on youtube. The dollar inflation example ($1 loses 2-3% in value each year) makes you worry about your life savings.

Once I heard him speak about how bad the size of the government was and how we are borrowing millions of dollars from foreign governments, I decided he was the guy. So many Americans are tired of playing worldcop, and our national infrastructure is crumbling around us (ie. Minnesota bridge).

Most war supporters at this point understand the war is not going to end well, but they are so emotionally invested in their viewpoint. It is almost a matter of pride. They don't want to admit they were wrong, so I wouldn't make them do that if you want to persuade them. You can tell them that they did what they thought was best at the time while acting on the information available to them. Many, many of them did. Along the way they got sick of being called war-mongerers or hearing the various democrat/MSM second-guessing. This is vital to understand if you want to persuade: they feel under siege for their war support, so just adding to that isn't going to win votes.

Just tell them you want what is best for America over what is best for Iraq or a variety of other places we will never see. We need to take care of our own friends and families first. Any real American would agree with that.

We aren't here to win arguments. We're here to win votes. I know many war supporters, and most don't consider themselves neo-conservatives. In fact, I can't remember a single one every claiming to be. Republican or conservative, yes, but never a neo-conservative.

Hope this helps.

 

[adpierce]

Neo-conism is a cult. I mean that...seriously.

The only way to deprogram someone who has ben "Hannitized" is to do what relatives of cult members do.

You kidnap them, isolate them, and break them psychologically so you can rid them of their false beliefs and cure them. I'm not kidding.

Given that this is unrealistic (and illegal), the next best thing to do is mercilessly ridicule their beliefs and their heros.

I'm not talking about semi-open minded people who can still be reached with gentle persuasion and sound logic. ...I'm talking about those zombies who booed RP at the debate.

It's a tough sell...but thats all u can do.

That's not necessarily true, a university education goes a long way too. Although it too is not a surefire way to de-Hannitize somebody. Reading books can help too, facts generally defeat neo-con positions. I think that's what got me away from the neo-cons finally.

 

[constituent]

Most of those swayed by the neo-cons are those who think they are fighting some sort of "elitist agenda".... no doubt they're active participants in the war, they just don't recognize which side they are on.

therein you find the golden ticket to the neo-cons and the 10% army they have duped. explain to them how and why they are actually fighting for the elitists, and explain why ron paul is the one fighting against them.

ron paul is the only who even proposes going after bin-laden. does g dub have any sort of plan/desire/whatever? probably not... sean hannity, what's his plan? kristol... his?

 

[sickmint79]

i never speak with my family on politics, as a whole it's rarely brought up. spoke to my dad last night and came to realize he knew a lot more about the middle east than i thought... and that he was a neocon! :/ i presented paul's views, and he totally giuliani and fox'd me. he definately thinks we have a real threat in nuclear terrorism from iran, and that everyone hates israel and israel is a victim. i sent my p's e-mail account (my mom is really the one that reads it) some videos and some books to read, we'll see how this goes...

 

[noxagol]

We aren't here to win arguments. We're here to win votes. I know many war supporters, and most don't consider themselves neo-conservatives. In fact, I can't remember a single one every claiming to be. Republican or conservative, yes, but never a neo-conservative.

Hope this helps.

I think the only one who labels the neocons as neocons are people who are not neocons and are pointing their finger at them for why our country is quickly going down the shitter. Neocons do not label themselves as neocons, but just simply conservatives.

 

[sickmint79]

That's not necessarily true, a university education goes a long way too. Although it too is not a surefire way to de-Hannitize somebody. Reading books can help too, facts generally defeat neo-con positions. I think that's what got me away from the neo-cons finally.

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