Here's another poll for us to own!

[Micah Dardar]

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/24/new...ancialcrisis/index.htm?postversion=2008092420

What's your view about granting taxpayers stock in any company taking part in the proposed $700 billion bailout?

You all know how to answer

 

[FreeMarketEconomy]

Can anyone give me sound reasons as to why there should not be a bail out? Please show intelligence and be detailed.

 

[Vote Waterman 2028]

Can anyone give me sound reasons as to why there should not be a bail out? Please show intelligence and be detailed.

This is coming because the economy itself is making it so, it needs a recessoin, needs debt to be liquidated. We are going to have a recession no matter what, been pushed off since 2002. This bailout would help short term, but it most likely would destory our dolloar and the morals of our economy, saying that there is no punishment for financial thievery. Either way tough or tougher times are ahead. Its the sad truth. No matter what the candidates say, taxes are going to be going up, its simple fact, and niether of the main two will admitt that during an election season, and so they wont get my vote for presidency, or the bailout.

 

[Micah Dardar]

Can anyone give me sound reasons as to why there should not be a bail out? Please show intelligence and be detailed.

The government has no Constitutional authority to steal money from citizens and give it to corporations! The people do not agree with this, and therefore is amounts to theft and fraud. The sound reason is that we are supposed to have a Constitution to protect us from this kind of thing.

Also, on a more personal note, that is enough money to build a structure around New Orleans greater than the Hoover Dam and larger than the Great Wall of China!

 

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Can anyone give me sound reasons as to why there should not be a bail out? Please show intelligence and be detailed.

Why would someone, like you, that doesn't support the free market, create and forever tarnish a promising username like that? FreeMarketEconomy hm.

 

[phoenixrising]

you gotta be kidding me!! there are more ignorant people out there even in a crisis!!

1. What's your view about granting taxpayers stock in any company taking part in the proposed $700 billion bailout?
It's needed to approve the plan 41%

The plan should be approved with no conditions 7%

No bailout in any form 51%

Total responses to this question: 49688

 

[FreeMarketEconomy]

This is coming because the economy itself is making it so, it needs a recessoin, needs debt to be liquidated. We are going to have a recession no matter what, been pushed off since 2002. This bailout would help short term, but it most likely would destory our dolloar and the morals of our economy, saying that there is no punishment for financial thievery. Either way tough or tougher times are ahead. Its the sad truth. No matter what the candidates say, taxes are going to be going up, its simple fact, and niether of the main two will admitt that during an election season, and so they wont get my vote for presidency, or the bailout.

If the there is a financial system collapse, the burden would be on government once again because they are the insurers of our financial system, such as how the government has ensured bank deposits of up to $100,000. If they wait till the system collapses they will have to use a lot more than $700 billion. The government could have only paid $20 billion towards AIG if they did it a week earlier, instead of the $85 billion. The longer the delay the more money is needed.

The truth is this emergency plan is not to prevent a recession. It is being implemented to prevent a depression equivalent or worse than the Great Depression.

If you really understand economics and this whole financial crisis, then you understand that President Bush's explanation of the reasons for this crisis is accurate and his forecasts regarding its effect on the overall economy are true.


And, what do you mean with the destruction of the dollar? Do you mean inflation that would make US exports cheaper whilst eliminating the trade deficit and creating jobs in America? The same inflation, which would make it easier to get loans from banks to start a business that would help economic growth?

 

[jkm1864]

Why do I not support it because the DEPRESSION is coming and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Everyone here is going to be hurt in 6 months or less and all of our lives are going to be changed for the worse. The only difference is BUSH wants his cronies to live in luxury during that time so I say let them squirm in the dirt like we will be doing. THE DEPRESSION CAN NOT BE STOPPED and will continue as planned. Also the money will prop up the market for a little while until everyone in the know can sell all of their stock while the rest of us are left holding the bag. Do not listen the media or BUSH this is not in our interests even though they say it is. NO tax payer will receive any relief what so ever because people are going to still be kicked out of their homes. Now the only way it would be remotely fair is if the banks will knock of 8k off of our mortages atleast for tax payers. Well we know thats not going to happen now do we. Also the government is going to be 100 trillion in debt real soon so where is the money coming from? The point is they don't have the money !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[nate895]

If the there is a financial system collapse, the burden would be on government once again because they are the insurers of our financial system, such as how the government has ensured bank deposits of up to $100,000. If they wait till the system collapses they will have to use a lot more than $700 billion. The government could have only paid $20 billion towards AIG if they did it a week earlier, instead of the $85 billion. The longer the delay the more money is needed.

The truth is this emergency plan is not to prevent a recession. It is being implemented to prevent a depression equivalent or worse than the Great Depression.

If you really understand economics and this whole financial crisis, then you understand that President Bush's explanation of the reasons for this crisis is accurate and his forecasts regarding its effect on the overall economy are true.


And, what do you mean with the destruction of the dollar? Do you mean inflation that would make US exports cheaper whilst eliminating the trade deficit and creating jobs in America? The same inflation, which would make it easier to get loans from banks to start a business that would help economic growth?

Umm, the Fed would have to print the money to make up the deposits. If you were to read history, you would learn that every time a government prints money to the extent our government intends to, the currency eventually turns out to be worth less than the paper it is printed on.

 

[FreeMarketEconomy]

Umm, the Fed would have to print the money to make up the deposits. If you were to read history, you would learn that every time a government prints money to the extent our government intends to, the currency eventually turns out to be worth less than the paper it is printed on.

You need to understand the real world effects of inflation and deflation of currency on the economy.

And, if you are referencing the Great Depression it was caused by a great deflation in the money supply.

If you are referring to hyperinflation then this emergency plan is being enacted to try to prevent it.

 

[Deborah K]

Can anyone give me sound reasons as to why there should not be a bail out? Please show intelligence and be detailed.

Because I don't wanna pay anymore for their f'k ups! How's that for detailed intelligence.

 

[mudhoney]

If the there is a financial system collapse, the burden would be on government once again because they are the insurers of our financial system, such as how the government has ensured bank deposits of up to $100,000. If they wait till the system collapses they will have to use a lot more than $700 billion. The government could have only paid $20 billion towards AIG if they did it a week earlier, instead of the $85 billion. The longer the delay the more money is needed.

The truth is this emergency plan is not to prevent a recession. It is being implemented to prevent a depression equivalent or worse than the Great Depression.

If you really understand economics and this whole financial crisis, then you understand that President Bush's explanation of the reasons for this crisis is accurate and his forecasts regarding its effect on the overall economy are true.


And, what do you mean with the destruction of the dollar? Do you mean inflation that would make US exports cheaper whilst eliminating the trade deficit and creating jobs in America? The same inflation, which would make it easier to get loans from banks to start a business that would help economic growth?

You seem to think if we just incorporate the bad debt into the national debt that it would just go away, no more thought needed. The fact is that the poor monetary policy and bad loans will just keep coming if we allow the government to back up any businesses that choose to make such loans.

You're right in the fact that we will face hard times if nothing is done. However, you can't just will away the recession with more government debt. The bad practices that were a result of artificial lowering of interest rates after 9/11, and the government's campaign to give housing to people who can't afford it need to end. Supporting these bailouts allows the problem to grow, and actually rewards those who took part! Keeping prices at artificial levels is how we got into this mess, and you have the balls to say we should continue it?

I'm not even going to touch your pro-inflation deficit spending stance. Any good side-effects of inflation are nothing compared to the negative effects it has on the poor and middle classes, and capitalism in general.

 

[FreeMarketEconomy]

You seem to think if we just incorporate the bad debt into the national debt that it would just go away, no more thought needed. The fact is that the poor monetary policy and bad loans will just keep coming if we allow the government to back up any businesses that choose to make such loans.

You're right in the fact that we will face hard times if nothing is done. However, you can't just will away the recession with more government debt. The bad practices that were a result of artificial lowering of interest rates after 9/11, and the government's campaign to give housing to people who can't afford it need to end. Supporting these bailouts allows the problem to grow, and actually rewards those who took part! Keeping prices at artificial levels is how we got into this mess, and you have the balls to say we should continue it?

I'm not even going to touch your pro-inflation deficit spending stance. Any good side-effects of inflation are nothing compared to the negative effects it has on the poor and middle classes, and capitalism in general.

Sure, the government will temporarily put the bad debt on its books because there is no other institution that can. But, the bigger economic picture is much more complicated than that simplistic way of thinking. If they do not have this emergency bail out then it would greatly affect our overall economy because everything is so interconnected, which would cause a Great Depression part 2. You probably just don’t understand how great the extent this crisis really is because the media is mainly making this a political issue, since this is an election year.

I support the free market, but the problem in the current market is that no one can value anything. Thus, the government is going to take the bad debt to let the market fix itself and then hopefully sell them back at a profit in the future.

Besides if you think of it as an investment it is potentially a good deal. AIG cost $85 billion to get an 80% equity stake whilst getting interest payments on the loaned money, which could have only cost $20 billion if they acted earlier. AIG’s assets are over $1 trillion; their problem was a lack of liquidity.

“AIG is the holding company for one of the world's largest insurance and financial services groups. At Dec. 31, 2007, AIG had total assets of approximately $1.060 trillion, stated shareholders' equity of $95.8 billion and market capitalization of $148 billion. In 2007, AIG had total revenues of approximately $110.1 billion and net income of $6.2 billion.”

And, with regards to inflation just take China as an example; they artificially inflate their currency so that they can have a trade surplus with the US.

 

[mudhoney]

Sure, the government will temporarily put the bad debt on its books because there is no other institution that can. But, the bigger economic picture is much more complicated than that simplistic way of thinking. If they do not have this emergency bail out then it would greatly affect our overall economy because everything is so interconnected, which would cause a Great Depression part 2. You probably just don’t understand how great the extent this crisis really is because the media is mainly making this a political issue, since this is an election year.

If, by "more complicated" you mean that the problems extend further than just the housing bubble crashing, then I agree. I've done a lot of reading, and it seems apparent that there are bubbles in other industries that haven't crashed yet, housing was just the first. How is the government supposed to sustain all of this from coming down in the end? Also, if the government doesn't allow prices to change according to what the market says they should be, how is that illusion supposed to be sustainable?

Also, why do you trust the dire calculations of people who not long ago assured us all things were going to be just fine? Ron Paul and Austrian economists have seen this coming, and have even proposed legislation that could have prevented it in 2002. Why would you trust those with little credit toward the situation, over those who have shown accurate insight over it?

 

[QueenB4Liberty]

If, by "more complicated" you mean that the problems extend further than just the housing bubble crashing, then I agree. I've done a lot of reading, and it seems apparent that there are bubbles in other industries that haven't crashed yet, housing was just the first. How is the government supposed to sustain all of this from coming down in the end? Also, if the government doesn't allow prices to change according to what the market says they should be, how is that illusion supposed to be sustainable?

And where will the bailouts end? Isn't it true that we will eventually fall anyhow? Why prolong the fall?

 

[FreeMarketEconomy]

If, by "more complicated" you mean that the problems extend further than just the housing bubble crashing, then I agree. I've done a lot of reading, and it seems apparent that there are bubbles in other industries that haven't crashed yet, housing was just the first. How is the government supposed to sustain all of this from coming down in the end? Also, if the government doesn't allow prices to change according to what the market says they should be, how is that illusion supposed to be sustainable?

Also, why do you trust the dire calculations of people who not long ago assured us all things were going to be just fine? Ron Paul and Austrian economists have seen this coming, and have even proposed legislation that could have prevented it in 2002. Why would you trust those with little credit toward the situation, over those who have shown accurate insight over it?

This emergency plan IS to help the market price these securities. The problem for months is that no one could accurately value these bad securities, thus causing a liquidity crisis. Banks have a lot of assets but do not have the immediate capital to pay for its operations and obligations because no one will buy the securities they have. There is a loss of confidence in the market, it is psychological. Thus, this is why banks are not lending out money, which affects the whole economy. They are reluctant to give out loans, such as to big or small businesses that create jobs for Americans. And, if you really understand what is going on this is just the tip of the iceberg on how big and devastating this crisis can potentially be.

Anyone with a basic understanding of economics would have known of this coming crisis if they were really interested. You want legislation to have prevented this crisis when it was the legislative branch that was one of the main culprits for this whole crisis, forcing lenders to give sub-prime loans to high risk unqualified individuals because of their socialist mentality of equality. Congress is about just as powerful as the President. Last month the Democrat controlled congress had an approval rating of just 9%.

“Congressional ratings first hit nine percent (9%) back at the beginning of July, marking the lowest ratings recorded by Rasmussen Reports. Ratings hit the same low two weeks later. Congress has not received higher than a 15% approval rating since the beginning of this year.”

 

[Bossobass]

Congressman Paul, if you were the President, what would you say to the American people about what has become a calamity in our economy?

RP: "I would allow the liquidation of bad debt, just like the Lehman Brothers. That debt was liquidated and that was fine and dandy.

"I would announce that the spending would be cut, we'd be bringing our troops home, we would live within our means, we would cut taxes, we would balance the budget and we would restore order.

"And we would DEregulate, we wouldn't add more regulations. We need to regulate by the market.

"The mal-investment comes from the excess of credit...the real fraud today is the Federal Reserve that debases the currency...inflation of the money supply and lowering of interest rates causes the trouble. You can't regulate yourself out of that problem."

I'm with Ron on this. This year alone, $1.5 billion a day is sucked out of the economy just to pay interest on the existing debt. That's $500 billion or more in 2008 alone, as the principal keeps growing.

Nearly $1 trillion more goes to maintaining the US Empire, as though we haven't learned a thing from Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Great Britain or the USSR, all of which came to an end by economics.

On 9-10-01 Rumsfeld held a news conference to announce that the Pentagon had 'misplaced' $2 trillion, calling it a national emergency.

Since then, deficits have totaled $6 trillion.

You don't fix that by more debt and more inflation. Period.

The US is broke. The Comptroller General of the US has spent 3 years telling us just that.

Small business accounts for more than half of US GDP and employment, yet, Bush has continually slashed the SBA budget to its current 1/6,000th of the federal budget. Wall Street gets $1+ trillion dollars and small business gets $400 million?

If this bailout goes through, I'm moving to a third world country. You know, where they have the world's tallest building, longest span bridge, man-made islands, energy independence, zero foreign debt, etc., etc.

Bosso

 

[FreeMarketEconomy]

Congressman Paul, if you were the President, what would you say to the American people about what has become a calamity in our economy?

RP: "I would allow the liquidation of bad debt, just like the Lehman Brothers. That debt was liquidated and that was fine and dandy.

"I would announce that the spending would be cut, we'd be bringing our troops home, we would live within our means, we would cut taxes, we would balance the budget and we would restore order.

"And we would DEregulate, we wouldn't add more regulations. We need to regulate by the market.

"The mal-investment comes from the excess of credit...the real fraud today is the Federal Reserve that debases the currency...inflation of the money supply and lowering of interest rates causes the trouble. You can't regulate yourself out of that problem."

I'm with Ron on this. This year alone, $1.5 billion a day is sucked out of the economy just to pay interest on the existing debt. That's $500 billion or more in 2008 alone, as the principal keeps growing.

Nearly $1 trillion more goes to maintaining the US Empire, as though we haven't learned a thing from Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Great Britain or the USSR, all of which came to an end by economics.

On 9-10-01 Rumsfeld held a news conference to announce that the Pentagon had 'misplaced' $2 trillion, calling it a national emergency.

Since then, deficits have totaled $6 trillion.

You don't fix that by more debt and more inflation. Period.

The US is broke. The Comptroller General of the US has spent 3 years telling us just that.

Small business accounts for more than half of US GDP and employment, yet, Bush has continually slashed the SBA budget to its current 1/6,000th of the federal budget. Wall Street gets $1+ trillion dollars and small business gets $400 million?

If this bailout goes through, I'm moving to a third world country. You know, where they have the world's tallest building, longest span bridge, man-made islands, energy independence, zero foreign debt, etc., etc.

Bosso

You should get your plane tickets sooner than later to get a discount.

 

[Bossobass]

You should get your plane tickets sooner than later to get a discount.

You should buy more stocks.

Bosso

 

[JosephTheLibertarian]

You should buy more stocks.

Bosso

You should buy more fleshlights