Evangelical Vote

[oldpaths1611]

As a Bible-believing Christian and a former pastor I know how deeply Christians care about this country and the direction in which it is going. I also know how vitally important the evangelical vote is and how it has made or broken candidates in the past. Most evangelical and fundamental Christians who vote, and there are tens of millions of them, are registered Republicans. These are the very people the Ron Paul campaign must reach if the Congressman is to have any chance at all in the primaries. Unfortunately, it's also true that most evangelicals are easily manipulated sheeple who blindly adhere to the neocon agenda. After all, these are the folks who put Bush into the White House - twice. The leaders of the so-called Christian right are very much to blame for the ignorance of those under them. The James Dobsons and Pat Robertsons of the world are neocon to the core. The vast majority of the evangelical community is completely ignorant of Ron Paul, and men like Joseph Farah and Kevin McCullough are doing all they can to make sure that what little is know of Dr. Paul is negative. Ironically, Ron Paul is the conservative Christian's ideal candidate. In Fact, he's too good to be true! The good news is that the right is very much in a state of confusion at the moment, since none of the leading candidates quite fit their concept of a conservative Republican. I believe that if we could wake up the sleeping giant that is the church and educate them about who Ron Paul is and what he is about, many believers would "see the light." If we could get the church behind Dr. Paul, well then we might just have ourselves a President! Don't look to the big shot Christian celebrities to endorse Ron Paul, but do everything you can to reach out to the common church going folks in your community. I'll be doing all I can on my end. Here are a couple of articles related to the subject that you can use in your outreach.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance109.html

http://www.rightsourceonline.com/enews/issue3/three.htm

http://libertyunbound.com/archive/2007_05/vance-christians.html

 

[angrydragon]

Dobson's and Robertsons' followers are so brainwashed, I'm not sure how to get to those people even if you told them about Ron Paul.

 

[Seamaiden]

While I dislike the idea of mixing religion with government, I cannot ignore the facts. I think that this may be a good idea, but would like to ensure that it does not instead become a focus on bringing more religion into secular government.

 

[oldpaths1611]

Dobson's and Robertsons' followers are so brainwashed, I'm not sure how to get to those people even if you told them about Ron Paul.

Yes, they are. However, without those people Congressman Paul stands very little chance of winning. You have to remember the power of the evangelical vote. These are the majority of the folks who will decide who the Republican nominee will be. I don't think the Ron Paul campaign and it's supporters can afford to ignore this. To do so could cost Dr. Paul the nomination. I was never a Dobson or Robertson followers. These men are the very face of everything that is psuedo-Christianity. I am a born again Bible-believing Christian though, and I wanrt to see Ron Paul in the White House. There are many others like me, which means there is hope in reaching the church. It must be done if Congressman Paul is to have a fighting chance.

 

[oldpaths1611]

Here's a sample of the picture of Ron Paul being painted for the evangelical church. This is from the website of Kevin McCullough, a leading figure of the conservative right. By the way, McCullough is following Joseph Farahs (WorldNetDaily) lead in endorsing Fred Thompson for president. That is the direction in which the so-called Christian leaders are leading their flock. So, unless we want to risk another four years of Bush (a.k.a. Thompson), we had better get to work with these people.

http://kevinmccullough.townhall.com/page5

 

[Seamaiden]

Oy! One-world government one currency Fred Thompson? You're right that we don't want another four years of the same rhetoric and dogma!

 

[tsoldrin]

Evengelicals are the ones responsible for putting Bush in office. To be honest, I'd rather court the Truther vote than the Evengelical vote.

 

[oldpaths1611]

Evengelicals are the ones responsible for putting Bush in office. To be honest, I'd rather court the Truther vote than the Evengelical vote.

Okay, then get ready to have another neocon president. Or worse, Hillary. There are a whole lot more evangelicals out there than there are truthers, and they are much more powerful. You're right, the evangelicals did put Bush into the White House. So who do you think has the power to nominate the next Republican candidate? Could it be those very same evangelicals? Don't be foolish. Be smart. It's time to face the truth - without the evangelical vote Ron Paul does not stand much of a chance, if any. If I'm wrong, ok. But I don't think I'm wrong. You're own statement above validates the power of the evangelical vote. I'll say it once more with feeling, if we don't go after the church, we lose the presidency. Like it or not.

 

[angrydragon]

The only evangelicals I know are on TV.

 

[oldpaths1611]

The only evangelicals I know are on TV.

Yeah, and 99.99% of what you see on TV is not true Christianity. It's a sham. Anyway, I'm sure there are some churches in your area. How about printing up some flyers and distributing them on a Sunday morning as folks come out of church? Colleges and universities all have Christian clubs on campus. These are loaded with young evangelicals who are ripe for Dr. Pauls message. You could try to talk to some of them, or at least pass along some info. There's always something you can do.

 

[micahnelson]

Reaching Evangelicals

Reaching out to Evangelicals

Ron Paul is a proponent of liberty. As long as you do not want your views enforced on the population by legislation, this message will resonate with you.

Issues that would turn Evangelicals away from Ron Paul:
1) The War
Evangelicals are typically very loyal, unless challenged on morality issues. I would not suggest trying to make the war seem immoral as many Evangelicals are fiercely pro military and this casts the military as immoral.

Frame the debate around the proper resepect for the US Military. Talking points should be:
a) Our troops should not be used to enforce UN resolutions.
b) Our troops should not be put in harms way while republicans and democrats argue about funding

2) Voting against the Constitutional Amendment to Define Marriage
This one is easy.
a) The US Government should not be responsible for defining what marriage is, that is a vow between a man and a woman and if they are believers, God.
b) The Government should not be allowed to dictate how a church defines marriage.

3) Abortion Stance
This one is the tougher one, but Rudy is in a very similar spot. Romney's views are newly minted. The fanatical Pro-Life group does not have a horse in this race. Highlight Paul's stand against Roe v. Wade.

a) Ron Paul opposes activist courts that circumvent the people's ability to have representation on issues such as abortion.

 

[oldpaths1611]

Here's a link to articles by Dr. Laurence Vance. Vance is a genuine Bible-believing Christian, as well as a genuine Libertarian. You can use many of the points throughout his articles when dealing with evangelicals about Dr. Paul. His articles on LewRockwell.com are particularly good.

http://www.vancepublications.com/articles by lmv.htm

 

[angrydragon]

I thought this article was good.

The Unholy Desire of Christians to Legitimize Killing in War
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance111.html

On the phrase "Thou shalt not kill" in the sixth commandment, here is Kenneth C. Davis, author of Don’t Know Much About the Bible: Everything You Need to Know About the Good Book but Never Learned (William Morrow, 1998):

This is another critical King James Version mistranslation of the original Hebrew. The correct reading is "You shall not murder" (NRSV, JPS, and others). As the rest of the Hebrew scriptures clearly indicate, God had no problem with certain forms of killing.

So, Kenneth Davis, who couldn’t recite the Hebrew alphabet if his life depended on it, tells us that the most widely accepted Protestant version of the Bible mistranslates "the original Hebrew."

Where, then, is Davis getting his information? Evangelicals Robert Morey, in his book When Is It Right to Fight?

 

[tsoldrin]

Okay, then get ready to have another neocon president. Or worse, Hillary. There are a whole lot more evangelicals out there than there are truthers, and they are much more powerful. You're right, the evangelicals did put Bush into the White House. So who do you think has the power to nominate the next Republican candidate? Could it be those very same evangelicals? Don't be foolish. Be smart. It's time to face the truth - without the evangelical vote Ron Paul does not stand much of a chance, if any. If I'm wrong, ok. But I don't think I'm wrong. You're own statement above validates the power of the evangelical vote. I'll say it once more with feeling, if we don't go after the church, we lose the presidency. Like it or not.

First... in my eyes, Hillary IS a neocon. I can see no difference in her position and those of BushCo other than WHO gets to reap the most profits.

Other than that, I take your point... though I think strategically, evengelicals are much more likely to vote AGAINST someone than FOR anyone. That makes things much easier... we simply need to narrow the field.

For example, Evangelicals will come out in large numbers to vote AGAINST Giuliani. That's just a given and as long as the Ghoul is in the lead, it's a good thing.

Romney on the other hand could split the Evangelical vote... I can see an unholly alliance with some Christians, but the hard liners are going to scream bloody murder about Mormonism. The ties to lucifer worship and the whole 'magical underwear' stuff would be hillarious to watch them fight over.

Freddy seems to be the real problem, but I have a feeling once he actually gets in and starts weighing in on issues his popularity will drop like a stone anyway.

As for the rest of the GOP 'contenders', I don't think any of the other ones will have the staying power... monetarilly speaking.

Not that Paul has it all sewn up, but these are all very real possible outcomes...


Next stop would be facing the perfect democrat opponent... my choice is Hillary, because nobody in both fields can bring out people to vote AGAINST them in droves like she can.

 

[oldpaths1611]

Other than that, I take your point... though I think strategically, evengelicals are much more likely to vote AGAINST someone than FOR anyone. That makes things much easier... we simply need to narrow the field.

You're right. The moral reasons for which evangelicals vote are just as valid or more so to them as are the political reasons. I'm a born again Christian and therefore there are a lot of moral reasons I would vote against some of the candidates. Rudy is a lying, self-serving criminal who likes to dress up like a woman. Romney is a faithful member of a highly secretive and very dangerous cult (and probably does wear "holy underwear!). Hillary, well, she's Hillary. Etc., etc.

Now, from a moral standpoint, I will tell you what impresses me greatly about Ron Paul. He's been married 50 years to the same woman. He has five children and 17 grandchildren. He's a family man through and through. Also, he's an obstetrician who's delivered over 4,000 babies and is pro-life. He's a church going man and served in the Air Force as a flight surgeon. So he represents God and country. In other words, he's old-fashioned American baseball and apple pie. For me he comes off as an honest and sincere country doctor type. Add to all of that his congressional record, his constitutional platform and his libertarian conservative values....and he's the perfect package for the evangelical nomination! If I was a salesman, I'd have absolutely no problem at all selling Dr. Paul to the Christian right. The job of a salesman is to convince the customer that you have what they want. If we can just convince the church that Ron Paul is what they really want, both morally and politically, the rest is a piece of cake.

 

[johngr]

Next stop would be facing the perfect democrat opponent... my choice is Hillary, because nobody in both fields can bring out people to vote AGAINST them in droves like she can.

No way they're going to let Hillary win after it starts to look like Dr. Paul has a chance to win the Republican nomination. They know he would shred her to pieces in any debate. I predict they'll go to the bullpen and tap Gore when it starts to look like Dr. Paul can win. Look for some shenangens in their nomination process.

 

[remaxjon]

Evengelicals are the ones responsible for putting Bush in office. To be honest, I'd rather court the Truther vote than the Evengelical vote.

Well good luck winning a primary then. I am also responsible for putting Bush in office but as they say truth will set you free. Paul's message will appeal to Evengelicals if presented to them in the right way. Paul has the moral high ground all the issues evengelicals care about. Its time they were made aware.

 

[johngr]

I am an atheist who doesn't like the fairy tale stuff but doesn't at all object to most of the family-oriented Christian morality. I have seen in my lifetime a concerted effort to obliterate it from the culture and I don't like that. I see the wars as part of this effort to demoralize us (among other purposes for them).

I watched the Neoconned speech http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4156174553630131591&hl=en-CA

and was blown away by it and quite frankly, I do not see how any Christian could watch his speech and not be immediately "converted". Question is, how to get it to them.

Ron Paul is the most Christ-like man to come along in the last 50 years at least, imo. I hope he doesn't meet the same fate.

 

[oldpaths1611]

Ron Paul is the most Christ-like man to come along in the last 50 years at least, imo. I hope he doesn't meet the same fate.

I am a Christian who believes in what you call "the fairy tale stuff." Do you know why I want Ron Paul as President? It's so I can have the liberty to stand on a street corner and tell you that you're going to Hell without Jesus Christ, and you can have the liberty to tell me to go to Hell while flipping me the bird. As far as why most Christians don't go for Dr. Paul, it's exactly because they've been neoconned. Bush can commit all kinds of evil acts (and he has) and the Christian right will give him a pass...as long as he's not caught with an intern. Then he's toast. As to how to reach them, read some of the articles by Laurence Vance posted earlier and use some of the points in those articles when talking to evangelicals.

Regarding Dr. Paul meeting the same fate as Christ...Given the history in this country of troublesome political figures and dissenters being "bumped off," it's not such a strech to believe that if Dr. Paul's candidacy becomes enough of a threat to the powers that be that he may, in fact, meet the same fate. I've heard Congressman Paul discuss the possibility of this himself. Even if that doesn't happen, considering all the other tactics at the disposal of the establishment they can use against Dr. Paul (media propoganda, blackout, rigged elections, etc.) it's going to take almost a miracle to get him into office. All the more why he needs every vote he can get, and all the more why he needs the evangelical vote behind him.

 

[JaylieWoW]

Just an interesting something to think about as far as the evangelical vote.

First, at this point in time Giuliani is leading in the "scientific" polls.

Second, James Dobson (Focus on the Family) has absolutely left no doubt whatsoever that HE (meaning FotF) will NOT endorse Giuliani under any circumstance, PERIOD. He has not yet announced who he does support, but Giuliani is NOT it.

Put these two together come voting time and you could see some REALLY split votes. If Giuliani has the popular vote and whoever Dobson endorses (my best guess would be Huckabee possibly), that would be an ENORMOUS split of votes which IMHO could very well lead to a Ron Paul win (or at least a very good showing).

Like I said, its just something that has been in the back of my head for some time and I'll be very intrigued to see what (or if) anything comes of it.