Hi Clayton, thanks for your thoughts. I'm not sure if they were directed at my OP or the article linked above. I am not saying I agree with the Inquisitions; I am just trying to correct falshoods about them!
Understood. As I said, I'm not trying to start a flame-war, and the purpose of my posts here is not to drag you into an argument, rather, it is just to provide a counterpoint for interested readers.
The problem with the sympathetic view (towards the church of Rome) you are espousing is that it follows the original, and wrong, justification for church-supervised torture that essentially goes something like this: the priest does not himself pull the levers of the rack, rather, the priest is merely the agent who is providing grace to the one who is excommunicated by the church, thus, delivered to the State, who is morally free to torture and kill any mortal who is outside the protection of the church. Thus, only in the rare cases where a priest personally abused a heretic or other excommunicant may we say "the church used violence" and, in all other cases, the church is merely innocent and standing by as an observer and attempting, even in the final moments of life, to persuade the excommunicant to recant and confess, which is a mercy, not an act of hostility. Of course, this entire line of reasoning is as deranged and psychotic as the secular world represents it to be in entertainment, etc. The duty of the believer in the case of someone who is being tortured and killed, whether they are a believer or not, is to pray for them, to pray for their soul, and to commit their care to God who alone is the judge of the souls of men,
not the church. The keys of binding, which are given to all believers, not to Peter, are not to be confused with judgment, which is God's alone. And the blasphemous arrangement between the Western powers and the papacy by which the "Pope" pretended to give moral cover to torture and murder by the King's agents, is just stuff and nonsense in the sight of God. It's just a very elaborate excuse for committing crimes in broad daylight.
Are you saying that the death penalty is necessarily "evil"?
No. A criminal may die as a result of a valid act of self-defense by a private citizen, and the fully lawful administration of the death-penalty under the civil law (but note that most DP is
not lawfully administered!) is just a logical extension of this situation, where the death is simply administered at a later time, and not as an immediate consequence of the prior emergency that the criminal caused. It is essentially "time-delayed self-defense."
God endorsed it for many reasons in the OT, and Jesus will do a bit of it himself when he returns;
The problem is not that God kills his enemies, the problem is that sinners have no moral foundation on which to kill other sinners,
not even the State. The State has no legitimate authority, in and of itself, to kill
anyone. And the fact that death may be administered as a penalty for violation of the law is a fact that is not
about the State, in other words, the lawful authority to administer the DP exists
independently of the State itself. Finally, nothing to do with death can be "done right" -- it's
all wrong, except for the final cleansing that is going to restore the world at the end of the Age, and the only reason that God tolerates lawful killing of humans by humans (including the DP) is by extension of the Last Judgment itself. That is, these present deaths, if they are lawful, are only lawful
because they participate in the Last Judgment. At the risk of explaining the obvious, the executioner's ax is swung under the eyesight of Almighty God and should his ax be turned upon the innocent, the murder has been committed openly in front of so many more witnesses, thus making that much more secure the damnation of the murderous State officials (and/or churchmen) who signed off on it. In short, the officials who wield the sword of judgment thereby place themselves immediately into God's own throne-room and under his eye, having his full attention. No sinner should be eager to have the full attention of God so those who eagerly wield the sword of judgment are either ignorant of what is really happening, or they are mad. In itself, death solves
nothing, it just defers the matter to the Last Judgment, where God places no weight
whatsoever upon the various moral theories of the "important" people. The DP may be the just and right action in certain, rare circumstances, but that does not change the dread weightiness of the matter by one iota.
are you saying they are evil for doing so? I argue that, due to our fallen world, war and the death penalty within its proper context are actually the domain of those who love peace. I would say this is the view of the Inquisitors as well.
The church of Rome is infused with bloodlust and has been since it was politically coopted by the Roman empire. I know that Roman Catholics won't share that view, but all I can say is... read history, and don't just read apologetical history, read both sides of the story. "Christian killer" is a blatant oxymoron, but the church of Rome worships this contradiction in all its forms, from the crusader marching away from his homeland as an act of "defense" (obvious contradiction), to the Jesuit priest kneeling over the waterboard as a form of "grace" to the torture/execution victim (obvious contradiction), etc.
However, I think you carry a few slight misconceptions; my next article will address those. If you are interested, watch this forum as I will post it here.
Yes, I'll read it.
This is directed at the article, but I'm afraid I have to disagree with much, as with most Christians before the rise of forced secular education. Unfortunately, I lack the time to fully engage in this discussion. Further, it strays from the historical topic, IMO. But it is a great discussion, and I thank you for your thoughts on it. I hope you find someone willing to discuss it with you here.
No worries. I will grant that there is a valid historical counterpoint to the Enlightenment narrative surrounding not only the Inquisitions, but many other actions of the church throughout the centuries. But the church of Rome has not learned, and continues to rebel against, God's obvious rod of correction, and I'll leave it at that.
