Capitalism = progress!

[Matt Collins]

I was thinking about this the other day while discussing with a good friend of mine. My friend is a highly paid independent fee-only financial adviser who has a radio show and a consulting firm teaching people about investing.


But the crux of the discussion was that we all earn money.

But why do we earn money? We earn money for solving problems. Specifically we earn money for solving problems for someone else. In other words we get paid to solve problems in one way or another. Not only is this service to others, but it is coming up with solutions in the world.

Simply because there is money to be made, people are constantly trying to help others and find solutions to problems. Why? Because there is a profit potential. Solutions are being derived in an effort to earn money. Therefore capitalism or the free market drives progress.

 

[Conza88]

So then why aren't the politicians paying us? Shouldn't they give us our money back if they fail to solve a problem, and in fact create more?

 

[LiveFree79]

I was thinking about this the other day while discussing with a good friend of mine. My friend is a highly paid independent fee-only financial adviser who has a radio show and a consulting firm teaching people about investing.


But the crux of the discussion was that we all earn money.

But why do we earn money? We earn money for solving problems. Specifically we earn money for solving problems for someone else. In other words we get paid to solve problems in one way or another. Not only is this service to others, but it is coming up with solutions in the world.

Simply because there is money to be made, people are constantly trying to help others and find solutions to problems. Why? Because there is a profit potential. Solutions are being derived in an effort to earn money. Therefore capitalism or the free market drives progress.

Sorry but capitalism involves a lot more than simply paying people to solve problems. A rather simplistic and juvenile assessment if you ask me. Capitalism CAN lead to progress. And progress is very subjective. If you define capitalism as the gluttonous, materialistic, unhealthy and greedy lifestyle we have in America than yeah we have great progress. But on the other hand we don't really have capitalism and free markets. In fact it's been a LONG time since we were anything close to a capitalistic economy. What we have and have had is state corporatism. Our government has been manipulating the economy/stock market, bailing out private enterprise left and right. People that say capitalism don't understand that. Capitalism hasn't failed because we've never really had capitalism. And I don't mean laissez faire true free market capitalism. We can't expect that in the 21st century. But we definitely need an economy that is more capitalistic than it is socialistic or "fascistic". There are inherit problems in capitalism just like every other system. But for anyone to argue that it's not the best choice we as a society have right now and the most free choice is ignorant.

For capitalism to work people must operate with honesty, integrity, and morality. Otherwise it just devolves into a competitive, greedy, laissez faire mess. Everyone is out for themselves and ends up giving a shit about their country and each other. They are loyal to the corporation and profits before anything else. As a people in a capitalistic economy and a free society we have to find a balance. A balance of self interest and giving back or service before self. One of the big reasons why America is headed in the direction it is. People don't care about their country. Only if it makes them profitable. The pendulum has swung so far into the fuck everyone else I'm going to get mine in life direction in America that I don't see how it will ever go swing back to the middle. This attitude is evident in everything from manufacturing to the housing market to the environment. I love how staunch capitalists say well if we didn't have to pay someone $60/hr to build a car in detroit and only had to pay them $5/to build a car like in China the free market would take care of everything or some bullshit like that. Well their wet dream is coming true. America is turning into a third world country with a disappearing middle class and everyone dissolving into the rich and the poor.

 

[LiveFree79]

Oh and we don't earn money buy solving problems. We earn money by exchanging our "labor" (can be producing something or solving a problem or whatever) for money/capital. If you think Capitalism solves all the worlds problems haha what a joke. Look at the health of this country. People are fatter, lazier, and more unhealthy than ever. So you've got all these corporations making a ton of money off unhealthy food that the consumer demands...........then you have a medical establishment that makes money off "treating" all the health problems because of this diet of unhealthy food. American healthcare doesn't give a shit about curing disease. If they found a cure for cancer or most serious disease there would be tons of people and companies out of work. Capitalism is may very well fix one problem but right around the corner there is another brewing.

 

[Truth Warrior]

Let's not confuse capitalism with STATE capitalism ( so called ).

 

[Conza88]

Let's not confuse capitalism with STATE capitalism ( so called ).

Yes... it's the "Liberals" "lefty scum" "pinko commi's" "nwo" stealing labels again with their esoteric agenda...

I refuse to allow these people to take names and destroy them, it really is a war of words.

Always correct them... "No capitalism has nothing to do with it".

It's called "fascism" as coined by Mussolini, who lated said it should have been called "Corporatism"...

 

[Truth Warrior]

Yes... it's the "Liberals" "lefty scum" "pinko commi's" "nwo" stealing labels again with their esoteric agenda...

I refuse to allow these people to take names and destroy them, it really is a war of words.

Always correct them... "No capitalism has nothing to do with it".

It's called "fascism" as coined by Mussolini, who lated said it should have been called "Corporatism"...

"When words lose their meaning, people will lose their liberty." -- Confucius

 

[mediahasyou]

Exactly.

Increased production and problem solving raises the standard of living. Free markets help everyone, poor/rich or short/tall. Equality flourishes in the free market.

 

[Matt Collins]

Increased production and problem solving raises the standard of living. Free markets help everyone, poor/rich or short/tall. Equality flourishes in the free market.

Glad someone else understands this.

 

[Matt Collins]

Look at the health of this country. People are fatter, lazier, and more unhealthy than ever.

Right.... which is why our lifespan is longer than it has ever been

Capitalism is may very well fix one problem but right around the corner there is another brewing.

Do you have anything intelligent or just more mindless rhetoric?

 

[Matt Collins]

If you define capitalism as the gluttonous, materialistic, unhealthy and greedy lifestyle we have in America than yeah we have great progress.

And you are calling ME juvenile?

But on the other hand we don't really have capitalism and free markets. In fact it's been a LONG time since we were anything close to a capitalistic economy.

Very good point actually. The government has began to regulate everything possible.

Our government has been manipulating the economy/stock market, bailing out private enterprise left and right.... for anyone to argue that it's not the best choice we as a society have right now and the most free choice is ignorant.

Glad we agree on something

For capitalism to work people must operate with honesty, integrity, and morality.

it doesn't have to, but it should.

Otherwise it just devolves into a competitive, greedy, laissez faire mess. Everyone is out for themselves and ends up giving a shit about their country and each other. They are loyal to the corporation and profits before anything else. As a people in a capitalistic economy and a free society we have to find a balance. A balance of self interest and giving back or service before self. One of the big reasons why America is headed in the direction it is. People don't care about their country. Only if it makes them profitable.

Not always and not in all cases. In fact I would say that the small business part of the economy this is simply just not true. With many of the large corporations? Yeah there is definately some truth to this statement.

America is turning into a third world country with a disappearing middle class and everyone dissolving into the rich and the poor.

Exactly. But I blame this on excessive government regulation, excessive taxes, no border security, and bad international trade policies.

 

[LiveFree79]

Right.... which is why our lifespan is longer than it has ever been
Do you have anything intelligent or just more mindless rhetoric?

So what? More and more people are diagnosed with cancer than ever before? Childhood diabetes and obesity are at record levels. The government and NIH/NCI can spin the numbers all they want. Plus that longer lifespan you talk of has a cost to benefit ratio. You know how much it costs to live a measly couple of extra years? And look at where America ranks as far as quality of life and health compared to other industrialized nations. And you accuse me of mindless rhetoric? LOL.

 

[LiveFree79]

Exactly. But I blame this on excessive government regulation, excessive taxes, no border security, and bad international trade policies.

Corporations barely pay any taxes in this country. No border security directly helps companies/corporations through accessing cheap labor. And the "bad" international trade policies you speak of are directly helping multinational corporations immensley and have been for decades. When will people realize that just because something is good for profits and companies doesn't mean it's necessarily good for people or the nation.

 

[youngbuck]

Right.... which is why our lifespan is longer than it has ever been

Now that is just ridiculous. Actually, now lifespans are starting to decrease, and chronic diseases of ALL types are at an all time high.

 

[Matt Collins]

So what? More and more people are diagnosed with cancer than ever before?

Did it ever occur to you that possibly medical science is better at diagnosing things?

Childhood diabetes and obesity are at record levels.

That's true. But I blame it on bad parenting.

 

[Matt Collins]

Corporations barely pay any taxes in this country.

Corporations should pay NO taxes in this country!

Why? Because a corporation is a business and is only in business to make money. Every tax it pays is simply counted as overhead or the cost of doing business and is then passed straight on to the customer (you and I).


A tax on a corporation is another hidden tax on the people.

No border security directly helps companies/corporations through accessing cheap labor.

Absolutely correct.

 

[LiveFree79]

Corporations should pay NO taxes in this country!

Why? Because a corporation is a business and is only in business to make money. Every tax it pays is simply counted as overhead or the cost of doing business and is then passed straight on to the customer (you and I).


A tax on a corporation is another hidden tax on the people.

Absolutely correct.

Fuck that! Corporations want all the rights and privileges of being considered an individual/personhood without the responsibility and accountability? They can pay their fair share of fucking taxes like I do. I don't give a flying fuck if they pass that cost onto the consumer. That's how a free market works. They can only pass so much cost onto the consumer before it destroys competition. American's have become so goddamned reliant on corporations for their livelihood in this day and age that's the problem.

 

[LiveFree79]

Did it ever occur to you that possibly medical science is better at diagnosing things?

That's true. But I blame it on bad parenting.

Haha yeah diagnosing things and then telling you that if you spend millions upon millions for toxic drugs, surgeries etc. you MIGHT live an extra few years. Do your research on cancer buddy. We've been losing the war on cancer for decades and it will amaze you how much money we've spent on cancer research. The entire medical establishment functions to prevent a cure for cancer. Millions of women are diagnosed more than ever with breast cancer but their quality of life and life expectancy really hasn't changed all that much because their cancer is "caught early". Again the research will show you this. Breast cancer treatment is a billion dollar industry nowadays.

 

[auctionguy10]

Fuck that! Corporations want all the rights and privileges of being considered an individual/personhood without the responsibility and accountability? They can pay their fair share of fucking taxes like I do. I don't give a flying fuck if they pass that cost onto the consumer. That's how a free market works. They can only pass so much cost onto the consumer before it destroys competition. American's have become so goddamned reliant on corporations for their livelihood in this day and age that's the problem.

I'm sure what he meant was that corporations shouldn't have to pay taxes and neither should anyone else.

What's confusing about your posts is that you initially say that we don't have a real free-market/capitalism in this country- then go on to talk like "Capitalism hasn't been helping this country!"

Which one is it? Either we have capitalism or we don't. You can't say we don't have one and then put the blame of our problems on capitalism.

 

[Matt Collins]

Fuck that!

Please behave a bit more maturely or I will report you to the mods and then put you on my ignore list.

They can pay their fair share of fucking taxes like I do. I don't give a flying fuck if they pass that cost onto the consumer. That's how a free market works. They can only pass so much cost onto the consumer before it destroys competition. American's have become so goddamned reliant on corporations for their livelihood in this day and age that's the problem.

Are you a troll? Are you a Marxist? Because I find it hard to believe that anyone who supports Dr. Paul can be so blatantly ignorant about how the market works.

Also, you can debate without using expletives; please do so in the future.