An Obama Presidency May Not Be Effective For Future Liberty Movements

[Theocrat]

There have been a lot of sentiments from members here that an Obama Presidency will actually work to our advantage in the future because it will help return our country towards more liberty-oriented principles, particularly in the Republican Party. I want to suggest this may not be the case for three reasons.

1. There is a possibility that our country will become even more accustomed and adapted to the socialist policies and agenda experienced under an Obama administration. Thus, for pragmatic reasons, our electorate could become even more hostile about the principles of liberty which aim at less government regulation, less taxes, more individual responsibility, more economic/civil freedoms, etc. because they've been used to Obama's policies which "have worked for so long." Of course, the media will do their best to assure the masses of this, and currently, our educational system increasingly espouses socialist/communist propaganda to the upcoming generation, seemingly in preparation of this.
   
2. The state of our nation may become so unbearable and intrusive under an Obama administration that people will be desperate for change by anyone who will drive us away from the status quo, which will give the Republicans an upper hand to nominate a candidate who is "just a little bit better than Obama," a moderate Republican, if you will. Thus, there is a possibility that we could still be stuck with another Republican after Obama's Presidency who is not principled in the foundations of liberty and Constitutional government that we all know is right and proper for our republic.
   
3. It seems to me that most people do not learn from history, and therefore, even if our nation's well-being becomes significantly worse under an Obama administration, it will most likely go unnoticed by the larger population (some of whom will be steadily enamored with the fact that we just have a Black President in the White House for the first time in our country's history). Undoubtedly, there will be individuals and organizations who will try to justify how Obama's socialist policies/agenda can be finely tuned and tweaked to work in "American democracy," since socialism only failed in other countries because they didn't have the right "political capital" we've enjoyed here in America for centuries. The principles of liberty in civics/economics may then be viewed as archaic and naive principles which failed our nation, due to all of the corporatism and political control of special-interests in Washington, D.C., among other things.

I just want to make it clear that I am not suggesting we should all vote for McCain to thwart Obama's chances of winning (I refuse to vote for the lesser of two evils.). I just want to caution those who suggest an Obama Presidency will help us in the long run that it may bring about some unintended consequences, and we need to consider those now in the present, if our grassroots efforts to campaign for liberty are to continue into the future.

 

[durden0]

I always like to point out that FDR was loved by the people and he instituted more socialism that kept us in a depression than anyone in history.

 

[torchbearer]

Neither candidate is good for liberty.
Vote for someone who cares about the constitution. It is the only moral decision.
Otherwise you are aiding and abetting criminals.

 

[gjvrieze]

..............

 

[JenH88]

Honestly an Obama presidency scares the sh*t out of me...at least with McCain people would be on there toes watching him for "more Bush policies".. I won't be voting for either of the two evils out of principle.. but with Obama we have a bigger chance to make major steps toward losing our guns, losing our rights to make decisions regarding our children, and marching full fledge into socialism with the people cheering the whole way... I fear for the future..

 

[Brassmouth]

honestly an obama presidency scares the sh*t out of me...at least with mccain people would be on there toes watching him for "more bush policies".. I won't be voting for either of the two evils out of principle.. But with obama we have a bigger chance to make major steps toward losing our guns, losing our rights to make decisions regarding our children, and marching full fledge into socialism with the people cheering the whole way... I fear for the future..

qft.

 

[Ben2008]

Exactly.

Dr. Paul said today in an interview on CNN today (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_yjImzwuIU) that it would be best for McCain to win, if for nothing else that it will bring some gridlock. That's a sentiment I expressed yesterday in my thread "I hope McCain wins."

If Obama wins, we're going socialist and there's no turning back for many many years.

 

[dannno]

The idea is that people believe so much in government that we are going to let them see that it doesn't work, even when their savior tries to implement it.

If you don't let them fail, they won't see the folly of their ideas, and they will continue to fight for government to save them rather than fighting for government to restrain itself.

If you try to convince them that we are already socialist, they won't care because the system was setup by an evil republican. They want it setup by a democrat because democrats aren't evil.

 

[torchbearer]

If Obama wins, we're going socialist and there's no turning back for many many years.

This will hasten the inevitable.
Do you want a quick painful death, or a slow drawn out painful death?

 

[mediahasyou]

Obama is a bigger threat to this nation than Osama.

 

[Kotin]

If obamas president we will all be forced by law to listen to at least an hour a day of his radio show.


God Help Us All.

 

[dannno]

Obama is a bigger threat to this nation than Osama.

McCain is a bigger threat to the world than yo mama.

 

[Ben2008]

This will hasten the inevitable.
Do you want a quick painful death, or a slow drawn out painful death?

I don't want a death at all. I am for doing what Dr. Paul wants to do, which is to help turn us around before that happens. It can be done.

You're assuming that if the U.S. completely collapses that it's going to be replaced with a free society. I wouldn't bet on that. I don't see any reason to think that it's not as likely or more likely that it would be replaced by a dictatorship.

 

[torchbearer]

I don't want a death at all. I am for doing what Dr. Paul wants to do, which is to help turn us around before that happens. It can be done.

You're assuming that if the U.S. completely collapses that it's going to be replaced with a free society. I wouldn't bet on that. I don't see any reason to think that it's not as likely or more likely that it would be replaced by a dictatorship.

Dr. paul didn't say vote for McCain.
That is what you wanted to do, and you heard him answer a lesser than two evil argument.
Dr. paul is not voting for McCain, and he has stated such.

 

[JenH88]

I understand the "quick fall at the hand of the savior" reasoning to try and turn things around.. but that is assuming that people will recognize the problems with socialism and be against it- I honestly don't see that happening, esp. with Obama at the reigns- with his charisma he could probably get the public fully behind putting people in gas chambers and detention camps with the people endorsing it 'for our safety'.. if McCain were to do something like that, a lot of people would already be weary and on watch....

Any fall or negative things that happen in the next 8 years will be blamed on Bush regardless of who's in control.. Obama will probably just use the excuse they're using for the bailout "it's going to take time"..

Marching fully into socialism and communism to try and get more liberty is insane.. would you let a tumor get as bad as it possibly can to try prove the tumor exists?

I have a daughter, and am expecting my second- I refuse to lay this mess at my children's feet... Obama will not help us..

 

[freelance]

Honestly an Obama presidency scares the sh*t out of me...at least with McCain people would be on there toes watching him for "more Bush policies".. I won't be voting for either of the two evils out of principle.. but with Obama we have a bigger chance to make major steps toward losing our guns, losing our rights to make decisions regarding our children, and marching full fledge into socialism with the people cheering the whole way... I fear for the future..

Very well said!

 

[Ben2008]

Honestly an Obama presidency scares the sh*t out of me...at least with McCain people would be on there toes watching him for "more Bush policies".. I won't be voting for either of the two evils out of principle.. but with Obama we have a bigger chance to make major steps toward losing our guns, losing our rights to make decisions regarding our children, and marching full fledge into socialism with the people cheering the whole way... I fear for the future..

What better "principle" to vote on than to prevent as much evil as possible? If you have the opportunity to help prevent a greater evil, then why not take it? I question the "principles" of people who take your stance. I think your "principle" may be irrational.

 

[JenH88]

What better "principle" to vote on than to prevent as much evil as possible? If you have the opportunity to help prevent a greater evil, then why not take it? I question the "principles" of people who take your stance. I think your "principle" may be irrational.

Huh? Did you not read what I wrote correctly? I will not vote for either of the two evils out of principle..

How is refusing to vote for any evil because I have morals a bad thing? lol..

 

[Chieftain1776]

I made a post justifying my Obama vote earlier. Please read this great post at National Review addressing the "New New deal scenario. To your points.

1) "There is a possibility that our country will become even more accustomed and adapted to the socialist policies and agenda experienced under an Obama administration. Thus, for pragmatic reasons, our electorate could become even more hostile about the principles of liberty which aim at less government regulation, less taxes, more individual responsibility,...the media will do their best to assure the masses of this"

Agree that there is that possibility...however the ONE good thing Bush and his brand of Republicans did was cut taxes. Like Dems can buy off constituences and have them agitate when they're being threatened Republicans have cut taxes and Obama will have to raise them to fund not only his socialist proposals but to dig out of the spending Bush has left him.And I don't think he can raise that type of revenue just by "taxing the rich". He may ante up and raise them but that puts his party in congress in prime position for a backlash in the midterms. Just like what happened to Clinton and the Dem's in '94. As for the media and propaganda...conservatives/libertarians had NO help from them and our rhetoric was successful enough for 8 years of bush and 12 years of a Republican majority in Congress (well in the house). Now we have the internet, Fox News (against a liberal president see my Hannity post and be shocked at how much he sounds like Ron Paul, and a radical (to them) like Ron Paul on TV almost every week.

2)"give the Republicans an upper hand to nominate a candidate who is "just a little bit better than Obama," a moderate Republican"

I think thats why nominating McCain this cycle was a great thing...he will lose and the concept of a "Me Too" Republican will be discredited. I'm more concerned with the midterm election but our prospects for 2012 are better imo than '08 or even 2000 b/c we've got someone like Mark Sanford (google him and pigs) and a possible Gary Johnson run with Mitt Romney I think being the worst possible. Gone are even more atrocious RINO's like McCain and Juiliani.

3)"It seems to me that most people do not learn from history, and therefore, even if our nation's well-being becomes significantly worse under an Obama administration"

Again a possibility but we don't have a choice either way. In the case of McCain at least a Republican can't be blamed 4 years later. The Dems will have a full shot at it and the Repubs hands will be clean. If McCain was elected they would still blame free markets even though McCain is a still a hack.

With Obama I think there's a better chance at least of dialing down foreign policy.

 

[Ben2008]

Huh? Did you not read what I wrote correctly? I will not vote for either of the two evils out of principle..

How is refusing to vote for any evil because I have morals a bad thing? lol..

I'm not saying having morals is a bad thing. I'm saying your morals themselves are perverse. Your principle is irrational. Your principle is evil.

If you're able to step in to help prevent a great evil from happening, at the cost of a smaller evil happening, and you don't do it, what good are you? In order to make yourself feel morally pure, you'll let an attrocity happen when you could have prevented it. I don't see anything respectable about that.

Note also that no candidate is absolutely angelic, so you're always going to be voting for some degree of evil.