A Must Read For All Delegates

[LEK]

IMPORTANT INFORMATION ON WHAT TO EXPECT AT YOUR CONVENTION FROM THE OLD RIGHT : A MUST READ FOR ALL DELEGATES

Posted March 19th, 2008 by SGP
[from DailyPaul]

I am going to put out some things on what you should be perpared for as far as tricks they will try to keep your voices silent.

If you want me to address your meetup and discuss some issues email me at [email protected] and i will try to address your group via telephone.

GET THESE TO EVERYONE THAT IS A DELEGATE AND POST ON EVERY BOARD YOU CAN.

Make sure you are recognized by the chair before bringing up anything!

Keep in mind the same things they may try to use against you could be used against them by you so look at these things both ways please.

1: Obtain a copy of your county and state bylaws and learn them but make sure there are no clauses for a paroxy vote in them and if there is make a motion to change the bylaws to not allow a proxy vote.

2: Watch out they do not try a PROXY VOTE clause : A vote by someone that is not at your convention in person that has given authroity to another person to cast thier vote. I have never seen this happen at any convention but just be ready and make sure it isn't in the bylaws that it is allowed.

3: When a vote is on the floor when you vote speak loudly as to show more numbers however they may try this same thing against you so what you must do if you believe that it is too close to call you need to CALL FOR DIVISION to force a hand count of the vote and when you vote on it be loud and vocal,

4: When in a debate on a motion that someone does not try to FORCE A CALL TO THE QUESTION for this is out of order the must first be addressed by the chair and then 2nd by someone then it must be voted on and they must have 2/3 majority to get the call to the question passed.

5: Do not let them try to table a motion on you : Table a motion is when they move to have the motion posponed to a later date as to wait for them to have the majority to get the motion passed.

6: If you have 2/3 majority at the convention you can defeat any motion before it even comes to a vote and this is called : Objection to consideration of the question and may not be debated in any way and if 2/3 vote aye you can kill the motion before it even hits the floor for a vote.

I will try and post more of these when i get time ok?

Dr. Steve Parent

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/43304

 

[TastyWheat]

In our party rules a "call to the question" only requires a majority and it screwed us a couple of times. Make sure your state party rules don't change the vote requirements. Motions that require 2/3 are that way for a reason, they take away some of the fairness of the meeting.

 

[hillertexas]

Thanks, Steve.

#4 is what did us in at my convention. I wish we would have known how to handle a "Call to the Question" beforehand. THEY WILL USE THAT TACTIC. Be prepared.

 

[robert4rp08]

/subscription bump

 

[pinkmandy]

Interesting. Thank you.

 

[Phantom]

Nice!

Added to my "Become a Delegate" page here

 

[Suzu]

Thanks, Steve.

#4 is what did us in at my convention. I wish we would have known how to handle a "Call to the Question" beforehand. THEY WILL USE THAT TACTIC. Be prepared.

I don't understand his #4 as written. It makes no sense to me. I'm a delegate so I need to understand this.

 

[hillertexas]

I don't understand his #4 as written. It makes no sense to me. I'm a delegate so I need to understand this.

OK...
Question #1 of the day was whether or not to debate the resolutions and move onto the next order of business. It was decided that we should debate the resolutions. We started to pick apart and debate the various resolutions. We debated a motion to amend something. That passed. So at that moment we were in sort of a no mans land where we were not currently discussing any specific resolution. We had already been at it for awhile and the Chair was running around talking to people, sweating, etc. because he was panicking that we had stirred things up. It was 5pm and he had said that we would be done at 2pm. Neocons were getting grumpy and wanted to go home. So I see the Chair talking to someone and the next thing I know, that person is at the microphone. He is then recognized by the Chair and says something to the effect of "Call to Question". A neocon on the other side of the room seconds the motion. We did not know what it meant. The Chair calls for a vote (we were voting vocally....BIG MISTAKE).

"All in favor say aye"...
"All opposed"...
"The ayes have it"...

Evidentially, the motion that had just passed meant that we were going back to the original question which, if you remember, was whether or not to debate the resolutions and move on. "Call to Question" at that moment basically meant "should we stop debating these resolutions and move on?" The ayes had it. ALL debate on resolutions was stopped. The next order of business was adjournment. The convention was adjourned. It was over before we knew what hit us. But all of these motions, point of order, etc things from Robert's Rules of Order are just chess pieces in this crazy game. We just didn't know how to block the "Call to Question" piece ahead of time. And thus, they had a checkmate.

 

[Suzu]

Excellent explanation (if in fact that's what he meant - and I do not know that it is, but since it appears that you do, unless someone contests your explanation with one that sounds more logical, I accept yours). Thank you so much, hillertexas!

 

[Bradley in DC]

Not a must read for ALL delegates but possibly useful for those in states where state conventions have a role choosing the national convention delegates.

 

[hillertexas]

Excellent explanation (if in fact that's what he meant - and I do not know that it is, but since it appears that you do, unless someone contests your explanation with one that sounds more logical, I accept yours). Thank you so much, hillertexas!

no problem....that was my best guess. I am brand new at this too...learning as I go. Good luck next Saturday!

 

[Drsteveparent]

Bradley you are a real piece of work.

Did you read the title?

IMPORTANT INFORMATION ON WHAT TO EXPECT AT YOUR CONVENTION FROM THE OLD RIGHT : A MUST READ FOR ALL DELEGATES

I suppose that isn't clear enough for you either?

For anyone that wants a 1 hour mp3 of me explaining things to expect at your convention email me at [email protected] and i will send you a copy.

It is actually a must read for anyone wanting to learn basics of rules of order and Parliamentary procedure.

Instead of trying to tear down everything i share why don't you help and start writing things out and share them.

 

[Bradley in DC]

Bradley you are a real piece of work.

Did you read the title?

IMPORTANT INFORMATION ON WHAT TO EXPECT AT YOUR CONVENTION FROM THE OLD RIGHT : A MUST READ FOR ALL DELEGATES

I suppose that isn't clear enough for you either?

For anyone that wants a 1 hour mp3 of me explaining things to expect at your convention email me at [email protected] and i will send you a copy.

Yes, I read the title. I'm trying to correct your misinformation. Some states do not have conventions at all (contrary to the misinformation on Anson's site you promote), and some in some states the conventions have no role in choosing the delegates. That's it. It's worthless for us in DC, etc.

 

[Phantom]

Steve, can you post a link to the MP3 explaining things to expect at your convention so that I can add it to my "Become a Delegate" page here

Thanks!

 

[Drsteveparent]

Yes, I read the title. I'm trying to correct your misinformation. Some states do not have conventions at all (contrary to the misinformation on Anson's site you promote), and some in some states the conventions have no role in choosing the delegates. That's it. It's worthless for us in DC, etc.

Yes you have made that clear many times.

Please tell me where this information is incorrect.

Yes we know for DC is worthless in general and i believe we are all aware of this.

I assume you do not need any of this information because you are a Parliamentarian?

Maybe some people are actually choosing to get involved in the party and fight to bring the party back to it's roots instead of making claims such as this is worthless to me.

 

[Drsteveparent]

Steve, can you post a link to the MP3 explaining things to expect at your convention so that I can add it to my "Become a Delegate" page here

Thanks!

Phanton i am sorry i will not and i will not post on this again either for i believe Bradley should answer questions here and i will stick to dailypaul.com

If you people would like my help i suggest you find it on dailypaul however if you choose to receive your information from the people here feel free to do so.

Good luck everyone at your conventions.

 

[spacehabitats]

IMPORTANT INFORMATION ON WHAT TO EXPECT AT YOUR CONVENTION FROM THE OLD RIGHT : A MUST READ FOR ALL DELEGATES

Posted March 19th, 2008 by SGP
[from DailyPaul]

I am going to put out some things on what you should be perpared for as far as tricks they will try to keep your voices silent.

If you want me to address your meetup and discuss some issues email me at [email protected] and i will try to address your group via telephone.

GET THESE TO EVERYONE THAT IS A DELEGATE AND POST ON EVERY BOARD YOU CAN.

Make sure you are recognized by the chair before bringing up anything!

Keep in mind the same things they may try to use against you could be used against them by you so look at these things both ways please.

1: Obtain a copy of your county and state bylaws and learn them but make sure there are no clauses for a paroxy vote in them and if there is make a motion to change the bylaws to not allow a proxy vote.

2: Watch out they do not try a PROXY VOTE clause : A vote by someone that is not at your convention in person that has given authroity to another person to cast thier vote. I have never seen this happen at any convention but just be ready and make sure it isn't in the bylaws that it is allowed.

3: When a vote is on the floor when you vote speak loudly as to show more numbers however they may try this same thing against you so what you must do if you believe that it is too close to call you need to CALL FOR DIVISION to force a hand count of the vote and when you vote on it be loud and vocal,

4: When in a debate on a motion that someone does not try to FORCE A CALL TO THE QUESTION for this is out of order the must first be addressed by the chair and then 2nd by someone then it must be voted on and they must have 2/3 majority to get the call to the question passed.

5: Do not let them try to table a motion on you : Table a motion is when they move to have the motion posponed to a later date as to wait for them to have the majority to get the motion passed.

6: If you have 2/3 majority at the convention you can defeat any motion before it even comes to a vote and this is called : Objection to consideration of the question and may not be debated in any way and if 2/3 vote aye you can kill the motion before it even hits the floor for a vote.

I will try and post more of these when i get time ok?

Dr. Steve Parent

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/43304

About #4, I am afraid that Steve's clarification is a bit confusing.

According to Robert's Rules of Order

http://www.robertsrules.org/motions.htm

"I move the previous question." Is a motion to "Close debate".

You cannot interrupt the speaker (i.e. you must be recognized by the chair),the motion must be seconded, the motion cannot be debated or amended, and passage requires a 2/3 majority.

Since it requires a 2/3 majority, a voice vote would never be appropriate, and if the chair allowed that, a "I move a rising vote" would clearly be in order.

A motion to count the votes of delegates standing does NOT need to be seconded and cannot be debated or voted on. It is every delegates RIGHT to question the chair's judgment on who won a voice vote. (That's why Robert's refers to it as a "Demand a rising vote".)

This thing about speaking or yelling loudly on voice votes, while appropriate, is not necessary. If you think you have lost a voice vote where you might have the majority, move for a rising vote.

By the way, if you are panicking and think you are being railroaded, do not roll over and give up; even if you are foggy on the proper procedure.

A "Parliamentary inquiry" (asking for help from the parliamentarian as to how to proceed ) or "Point of information" (asking for a clarification from the speaker)is certainly in order, and, again, does not need to be seconded.

Robert's Rules of Order were designed to facilitate orderly and FAIR meetings, not allow parliamentarians to confuse and intimidate delegates.

 

[spacehabitats]

Promises, Promises

Phanton i am sorry i will not and i will not post on this again either for i believe Bradley should answer questions here and i will stick to dailypaul.com

If you people would like my help i suggest you find it on dailypaul however if you choose to receive your information from the people here feel free to do so.

Good luck everyone at your conventions.

signed,

Your "Glorified Massage Therapist"

 

[Drsteveparent]

You left out a very KEY FACTOR in your statement.


Space habitat : A "Parliamentary inquiry" (asking for help from the parliamentarian as to how to proceed ) or "Point of information" (asking for a clarification from the speaker)is certainly in order, and, again, does not need to be seconded.

Steve : It can also be denied and the chair does not have to explain the proper procedure in any way. This also applies to a rise to point of information and can be denied as well.


Spacehabitat: A motion to count the votes of delegates standing does NOT need to be seconded and cannot be debated or voted on. It is every delegates RIGHT to question the chair's judgment on who won a voice vote. (That's why Robert's refers to it as a "Demand a rising vote".)

You should ask for a call for a rising COUNTED vote otherwise the chair can just eyeball the vote thus usuing his judgement without actually counting the vote.

 

[spacehabitats]

Deny a "Parliamentary Inquiry"?

You left out a very KEY FACTOR in your statement.


Space habitat : A "Parliamentary inquiry" (asking for help from the parliamentarian as to how to proceed ) or "Point of information" (asking for a clarification from the speaker)is certainly in order, and, again, does not need to be seconded.

Steve : It can also be denied and the chair does not have to explain the proper procedure in any way. This also applies to a rise to point of information and can be denied as well.


Spacehabitat: A motion to count the votes of delegates standing does NOT need to be seconded and cannot be debated or voted on. It is every delegates RIGHT to question the chair's judgment on who won a voice vote. (That's why Robert's refers to it as a "Demand a rising vote".)

You should ask for a call for a rising COUNTED vote otherwise the chair can just eyeball the vote thus usuing his judgement without actually counting the vote.

Sure, the chair could also pull out a .44 magnum and pick off the front row.
But in either case he might run the risk of having the results of the convention invalidated.

And Welcome Back!


signed,

Your "Glorified Massage Therapist"