Jawareport shows video WITH WEAPONS.

[Agorism]

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/201889.phP


Is this video legit?


The shooting of the rescuers was disturbing.

[Promontorium]

I read the report. It is clear that the people had RPGs and AKMs. Unknown is who they were, and why the Reporters were with them.

But it does change the game somewhat. RPGs are not personal defense weapons. And the picture wikilinks paints, of 2 journalists inviting locals to come by and have a chat seems unfounded.

However the things that bothered me the most about the video to begin with
1. the bloodlust from the pilots.
2. The shooting up of the van.

Are not resolved even if you assume they killed mostly insurgents. I thought the tradition of clearing out dead and wounded was something America honored. Instead, the clearly non-hostile van was destroyed, with the only excuse being that they were helping some insurgents "escape". Escape what, I do not know.

The report includes the last photo taken by one of the journalists. Revealing that what the helicopter pilots thought was a man aiming an RPG at them, was actually the reporter getting a shot. Curiously his photo was of a Hummer.

Clearly this video shows the depressing, heartless, and pointless conflict.

But I do not think things were as innocent as liveleak claims. I trust the report, as well as the sworn claims made, and the photos showing the RPGs and AKs.

Also, one thing I realized watching the full-length video, the helicopters were very far away the entire time. What Live Leak claims is evidence of innocent intent (the casual nature of the group, walking casually, gathering casually, etc.) if they didn't know the helicopters were above, looking at them, then there would have been no reason for them to be particularly cautious.

The Live Leak version also fails to mention this was a combat zone ( I believed it wasn't from first viewing) and that the helicopters and soldiers on ground had been fired on by RPGs all morning. Also while the soldiers were at the scene, there was small arms fire, suggesting that even if the people killed had no ill intent, those with ill intent were certainly in the neighborhood.

One of the reporters was on the phone right as he was being shot. What did he say? Did he tell the person on the other end who he was with? What other photos were on the cameras? Do any of them make the situation more clear?

Regardless, it would seem, with current rules of engagement, and the nature of the combat there, this was not murder. It is the game that is being played. This is why it needs to end. I do not think such an incident was either unique, or without merit. For if you grant that those soldiers have a purpose to be there, and that's the huge leap, then shooting roving bands of RPG carriers, on a day, and in a location where they've been shot at by roving bands of RPG carriers makes sense. The conflict doesn't make sense. But if you accept the conflict, then this event wasn't special.

[Agorism]

I've read claims on right wing message boards that these reuters reporters walk around with insurgents and stay imbedded with them in the past too, which angers U.S. troops.

You know how far away those helicopter were? For them not to see it, it must have been a hell of a long ways.

[Promontorium]

Traditionally reporters have ventured to travel with enemy forces. This has been more frequent in places where the US wasn't directly involved. But I would understand why a journalist would travel with insurgents in Iraq. There is a story to be told. It is a very dangerous story to obtain though.

[noxagol]

I've read claims on right wing message boards that these reuters reporters walk around with insurgents and stay imbedded with them in the past too, which angers U.S. troops.

You know how far away those helicopter were? For them not to see it, it must have been a hell of a long ways.

Judging by the delay from the sounds of the gun shots and the shots actually hitting the ground, I would say 3/5 of a mile away.