RFK Jr. endorses abortion up to birth

[Anti Federalist]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1788577379889070161

[fisharmor]

First they convinced a critical mass of people to breathe their own exhaust for a year and a half. Then they convinced a critical mass of teenagers to cut off their tits.

But don't worry, everyone, they totally won't convince women to kill their children. 'Cause apparently they draw a line for what self-harm they'll convince people to do.

I'm not sure how a guy who is supposed to be critical of the vaccination situation would be even capable of thinking that.

[Anti Federalist]

First they convinced a critical mass of people to breathe their own exhaust for a year and a half. Then they convinced a critical mass of teenagers to cut off their tits.

But don't worry, everyone, they totally won't convince women to kill their children. 'Cause apparently they draw a line for what self-harm they'll convince people to do.

I'm not sure how a guy who is supposed to be critical of the vaccination situation would be even capable of thinking that.

Good point.

[69360]

I think this clip may be out of context, I'm waiting to read more about it.

[dannno]

I think this clip may be out of context, I'm waiting to read more about it.

1:04:00

[Anti Federalist]

@dannno

Did you beat me or did I beat you?

Merge maybe?>

[PAF]

My response from the the other thread that already has this covered:

I agree with his position. Tax payer money, fed or state, should not be involved. If a person wishes an abortion, which is dreadfully wrong, let it be out of their own pocket, not mine, or your tax dollars from another state.

It seems every single issue one can think of becomes politicized, and as most should know by now, one cannot legislate morality.

RFK Jr.: "We shouldn't have government involved."

[CaptUSA]

RFK Jr.: "We shouldn't have government involved."

Well, if you believe that this involves murdering a human life, then the statement that "we shouldn't have government involved" becomes a little problematic, dontcha think??


Obviously, I don't support RFK's view here and neither does the SCOTUS. But for some reason, we all expect any third party candidate to be absolutely in line with every position we hold, while we make every concession for major party candidates. It's like Stockholm syndrome.

[acptulsa]

Obviously, I don't support RFK's view here and neither does the SCOTUS. But for some reason, we all expect any third party candidate to be absolutely in line with every position we hold, while we make every concession for major party candidates. It's like Stockholm syndrome.

And while we're letting the likes of Swordsmyth tell us when to let the perfect be the enemy of the good, and when not to, Jab Daddy Trump and Winter of Severe Illness and Death Biden are getting away with murdering adults wholesale by tag team.

[PAF]

And while we're letting the likes of Swordsmyth tell us when to let the perfect be the enemy of the good, and when not to, Jab Daddy Trump and Winter of Severe Illness and Death Biden are getting away with murdering adults wholesale by tag team.

Not to mention, that @Swordsmyth won't mention, that his savior Trump has signed more money-funding into Family Planning than Obama or any other president.

And the mere mention of defunding anything, well, that raises the hair on his skin and puts him into a tizzy.

@CaptUSA

[jmdrake]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1788577379889070161

In the same sentence he said "Leave it to the states" and then he said 'Leave it to the woman...don't have the government involved"...but the states are government. I don't think he thought that one through.

Anyhow, it's sad that there has not been a civil national conversation on this issue. I completely reject the "life begins at conception so all abortion at anytime should be illegal" point of view which recently played out in Alabama in a panic over IVF clinics but I also completely reject the "it's not a life until it takes it's first breath" point of view. Under English common law abortion was legal until the "quickening" which is when a woman can feel the baby move which is about 14 weeks. After that it was illegal. I can live with that. I don't believe in "rape / incest" exceptions because that's based on nothing but emotion. You wouldn't allow the toddler of a rapist to be murdered would you? I do accept a mother's life, and possibly physical health exception. It's possible, though very rare (as in only once so far) for an ectopic pregnancy to last to week 14. Such a pregnancy is dangerous to the mother. I'm not sure about an exception if the baby is late term but not viable.

Here's the funny thing. Most Americans share my view. They want restrictions on abortion but for the procedure to remain legal under certain circumstances. Even liberal NPR had to admit that.

https://www.npr.org/2023/04/26/11718...ates-are-going

So why are the politicians staking out the extreme positions?

[acptulsa]

So why are the politicians staking out the extreme positions?

And the pundits too, in lockstep.

You know why. All part of the divide and conquer psyop. Civil, rational discourse never got anyone appointed dictator. It never led to communism.

[CaptUSA]

Most Americans share my view. They want restrictions on abortion but for the procedure to remain legal under certain circumstances.

I'm pretty close to that view myself. In the law, there's a way to handle exception cases. It's called prosecutorial discretion. So, you set the state law for the majority of instances and allow for prosecutors to decide when and if to prosecute. If the prosecutor is too lenient for the local public, they can have the prosecutor removed. If the prosecutor goes too far to try to punish, a jury can weigh in. (And if it happens too often for the local public, they can have the DA removed) Of course, the voting public only hears about the law and not the enforcement mechanisms of the law.

For my state, I'd prefer allowing all contraception, including the Plan B. Then, providing a 2-week grace period after the woman is aware of the pregnancy - anything after that and they're subject to prosecution. Then, let the DA's decide which cases to bring. The woman and the doctor both have an incentive to not terminate after the grace period unless they have some sort of reasonable defense to murder. It's still not perfect, but nothing is.

I always say that if you've come to your conclusion on this topic easily, you haven't thought about it long enough.

[PAF]

I'm pretty close to that view myself. In the law, there's a way to handle exception cases. It's called prosecutorial discretion. So, you set the state law for the majority of instances and allow for prosecutors to decide when and if to prosecute. If the prosecutor is too lenient for the local public, they can have the prosecutor removed. If the prosecutor goes too far to try to punish, a jury can weigh in. (And if it happens too often for the local public, they can have the DA removed) Of course, the voting public only hears about the law and not the enforcement mechanisms of the law.

For my state, I'd prefer allowing all contraception, including the Plan B. Then, providing a 2-week grace period after the woman is aware of the pregnancy - anything after that and they're subject to prosecution. Then, let the DA's decide which cases to bring. The woman and the doctor both have an incentive to not terminate after the grace period unless they have some sort of reasonable defense to murder. It's still not perfect, but nothing is.

I always say that if you've come to your conclusion on this topic easily, you haven't thought about it long enough.

Explain to me why I personally should pay for other peoples Plan B, contraception and abortion, when I did not participate, nor was it was my decision to participate, in the sexual act?

[Snowball]

It's over for him. Fringe candidate now.

Any chance of him capturing a meaningful amount of Trump or Never Trump red staters is done.
Any chance of him capturing blue state Catholics which was his uncle's base is done.

He won't get over 10%.

[acptulsa]

Explain to me why I personally should pay for other peoples Plan B, contraception and abortion, when I did not participate, nor was it was my decision to participate, in the sexual act?

Because that particular private health care plan somehow manages to do that for other customers and still offer you the most for your money.

[Anti Federalist]

In the same sentence he said "Leave it to the states" and then he said 'Leave it to the woman...don't have the government involved"...but the states are government. I don't think he thought that one through.

Under English common law abortion was legal until the "quickening" which is when a woman can feel the baby move which is about 14 weeks. After that it was illegal. I can live with that. I don't believe in "rape / incest" exceptions because that's based on nothing but emotion. You wouldn't allow the toddler of a rapist to be murdered would you? I do accept a mother's life, and possibly physical health exception.

Here's the funny thing. Most Americans share my view. They want restrictions on abortion but for the procedure to remain legal under certain circumstances.

Even liberal NPR had to admit that.

So why are the politicians staking out the extreme positions?

I owe you a rep.

I have been saying this for years, to me it makes perfect legal, moral and medical sense.

It's how end of life is determined, lacking pulse or brainwaves or respiration.

Once past that point, or the "quickening", then that is a human being, regardless of how young or fragile, and deserves all the legal protections that are afforded any other citizen in a free society.

[PAF]

It's over for him. Fringe candidate now.

Any chance of him capturing a meaningful amount of Trump or Never Trump red staters is done.
Any chance of him capturing blue state Catholics which was his uncle's base is done.

He won't get over 10%.

Of course the world is full of hypocrites and single issue voters. But most don't even know the facts when they cast a vote. As if the bolded wasn't bad enough, other things were in there too:

- As president, Trump threatened to veto, but instead and without hesitation, signed a $1.3 Trillion 2018 Omnibus providing:

- $500 Million to Planned Parenthood.
- $1.371 Billion for Contributions to International Organizations
- $51 Million to promote International Family Planning
- $7 Million promoting International Conservation
- $10 Million for UN Environmental Programs
- Internal Revenue Service: Despite the administration’s attempts to slash its budget, the
Omni-Bus grants $11.431 Billion to the nation’s tax collectors, a $196 million year-to-year
increase and $456 Million more than Trump requested.
- Arts: Federal funding for the arts goes up, despite GOP attempts to slash it. The National
Endowments for the Arts and Humanities will see funding climb to $152.8 Million each, a $3
Million increase over the last fiscal year. The National Gallery of Art gets $165.9 Million, a $1.04
Million jump in funding. The John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts will receive $40.5
Million, which is $4 Million more than the last fiscal year.
- $12 Million for Scholarships for Lebanon
- $20 Million for Middle East Partnership Initiative Scholarship Program
- $12 Million in military funding for Vietnam
- $15 Million in Developmental assistance to China
- $10 Million for Women LEOs in Afghanistan


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-On-The-Record

[PAF]

Because that particular private health care plan somehow manages to do that for other customers and still offer you the most for your money.

A lot of folks in Section 8 don't have the same private health care that I have. Yet, I'm still paying for them.

Of course, the case can be made that they don't utilize the same amount of contraception, they would sooner have the babies to up their welfare.

[CaptUSA]

Explain to me why I personally should pay for other peoples Plan B, contraception and abortion, when I did not participate, nor was it was my decision to participate, in the sexual act?

Wait. Where did I say anything about anyone paying for anyone else?

[Anti Federalist]

I'm pretty close to that view myself. In the law, there's a way to handle exception cases. It's called prosecutorial discretion. So, you set the state law for the majority of instances and allow for prosecutors to decide when and if to prosecute. If the prosecutor is too lenient for the local public, they can have the prosecutor removed. If the prosecutor goes too far to try to punish, a jury can weigh in. (And if it happens too often for the local public, they can have the DA removed) Of course, the voting public only hears about the law and not the enforcement mechanisms of the law.

For my state, I'd prefer allowing all contraception, including the Plan B. Then, providing a 2-week grace period after the woman is aware of the pregnancy - anything after that and they're subject to prosecution. Then, let the DA's decide which cases to bring. The woman and the doctor both have an incentive to not terminate after the grace period unless they have some sort of reasonable defense to murder. It's still not perfect, but nothing is.

I always say that if you've come to your conclusion on this topic easily, you haven't thought about it long enough.

And this.

[Anti Federalist]

And the pundits too, in lockstep.

You know why. All part of the divide and conquer psyop. Civil, rational discourse never got anyone appointed dictator. It never led to communism.

Hey, don't blame me...I voted for Kodos.

[PAF]

Wait. Where did I say anything about anyone paying for anyone else?

Maybe I mistook the statement. If I did, my bad.

For my state, I'd prefer allowing all contraception, including the Plan B.

[acptulsa]

Maybe I mistook the statement. If I did, my bad.

The same mistake will be made with respect to RFKJr, over and over and over again.

The convenient thing about the internet (for the bad guys) is nobody will look at the "other side"s propaganda outlet. So they can constantly remind Democrats that he wants to kill government funding and convince Republicans that they'll be paying for his late term abortions all at the same time. That wasn't something they could pull off when the TV only had four channels on it.

[PAF]

So why are the politicians staking out the extreme positions?

And the pundits too, in lockstep.

You know why. All part of the divide and conquer psyop. Civil, rational discourse never got anyone appointed dictator. It never led to communism.

Which reenforces my opinion that:

RFK Jr.: "We shouldn't have government involved."

[CaptUSA]

Maybe I mistook the statement. If I did, my bad.

Yeah, ya did. "allowing" =/= "paying for"

[PAF]

Yeah, ya did. "allowing" =/= "paying for"

Unlike @Swordsmyth , I am happy to admit when I am wrong ;-)

[CaptUSA]

Which reenforces my opinion that:

RFK Jr.: "We shouldn't have government involved."

So, your position is that the murderer should decide what constitutes murder??

See what I mean by, "If you've come to your conclusion on this topic easily, you haven't thought about it long enough."

Unlike @Swordsmyth , I am happy to admit when I am wrong ;-)

[PAF]

So, your position is that the murderer should decide what constitutes murder??

See what I mean by, "If you've come to your conclusion on this topic easily, you haven't thought about it long enough."

What I am saying is, if "the government is not involved", there wouldn't be politicized sides to choose from, and there would be less burden on the tax payers to supply contraception or abortion, which would be left up to the individual. I do not believe in cradle-to-grave solutions, but rather people learning, thinking and acting as individuals, and taking personal responsibility for their choices and actions.

I am leaving the "murder" part out of it, because there would no government funding. That would be left to the individual and whatever consequences arise, which could be addressed after the funding has ended.

[jmdrake]

I'm pretty close to that view myself. In the law, there's a way to handle exception cases. It's called prosecutorial discretion. So, you set the state law for the majority of instances and allow for prosecutors to decide when and if to prosecute. If the prosecutor is too lenient for the local public, they can have the prosecutor removed. If the prosecutor goes too far to try to punish, a jury can weigh in. (And if it happens too often for the local public, they can have the DA removed) Of course, the voting public only hears about the law and not the enforcement mechanisms of the law.

For my state, I'd prefer allowing all contraception, including the Plan B. Then, providing a 2-week grace period after the woman is aware of the pregnancy - anything after that and they're subject to prosecution. Then, let the DA's decide which cases to bring. The woman and the doctor both have an incentive to not terminate after the grace period unless they have some sort of reasonable defense to murder. It's still not perfect, but nothing is.

I always say that if you've come to your conclusion on this topic easily, you haven't thought about it long enough.

I believe a life exception must be written into the law the same way that self defense is written into the law as a defense against a murder charge. Would you be okay with leaving self defense totally to prosecutorial discretion? I like the two week grace period after a woman becomes aware, but I have heard of women who for whatever reason didn't know they were pregnant until they were about to deliver.